D&D 4E Paizo and 4e - Vive le Revolution!

[Doug McCrae]

Although I'm very excited by the prospect of 4e I'd also be interested in picking up a 3.75 but is there room for one? Late 3.5 with reserve feats, warlocks, MM4-5 monsters, Bo9S, swift actions and action points is not far from 4e. Or would it be an altered 3.5 core, going down a different path?

Would it be compatible with 3.5? If so how could it fix the problems 4e purports to fix - sweet spot, class balance and 9.05am - without a major system rewire? If it doesn't fix these problems, problems which WotC must have identified as players' major concerns from market research, how can it hope to compete?

 

[sidonunspa]

Well I can tell you that Eric's comments do not surprise me, many of the d20 publishers are at the "4e issue" the same way.

You see, the convention season (Origins and GenCon) are a huge deal for publishers (especially smaller publishers like troll lords). It acts like a springboard for the rest of the year, if we make an impression at the conventions our sales show it year round.

So, by WotC not sharing the new d20 rules set with publishers (well... yet, I for one still have hope) we are being forced to make some VERY tough decisions. What do we print for the conventions? Do we stick with 3.5? Do we put out some “fluff” products?

Here at Paradigm Concepts we have a huge shared campaign to worry about, our call (one way or another) will affect thousands of players worldwide. Do we go 4e? Do we stay 3.5? Do we create a hybrid of 3.5/4e? Do we take 4e and modify it to our own system? There are pro’s and con’s to each plan. But we can’t make any plans till we see the complete 4e rules set.

It’s VERY frustrating, specially for companies like us down here in Miami… being far away from the “gaming hub” of the north west, we lack the “inside connections” to even get a hint of what’s coming down the road.

Thank god that Witch Hunter: The Invisible World is doing so damn well (like flying off the shelf well), seeing we developed the book with our own home-brew system we can just focus on supporting WH for the convention season this year.

But it makes me wonder, will 4e suffer a little from the lack of convention support? I know that if I went to GenCon and saw no 3rd party 4e products... I may just walk over to mad Igor’s booth and get some 3.5 books for 5 bucks each.

I have a feeling that Mad Igor is going to make a killing this year

 

[Desdichado]

The OGL is the 2nd amendment of the gaming world. You govern by consent of the fans. If you go against the wishes of the fans and split the community, not only can they go in revolt but they are inherently empowered and armed when they do so. Players are no longer tied to the edition WotC chooses to publish if they want support. The game can get up and leave, and has the capacity to defend itself when it does. This break in continuity is an enherently risky proposition for WotC, and like I said at the time, there is a good chance that they will find a portion of thier market just will not dance to thier tune.

How was that ever different, though? Even before the OGL, you could always just decide to play with your old stuff and buy up books that were out of print and use them instead. Granted, before the internet, eBay and Amazon stores, it used to be harder, but we had all of those long before we had the OGL.

I also disagree with the implication here that there's a really significant portion of the market that won't upgrade; I think they will, sales and revenue will spike because new core books sell like hotcakes compared to "yet another esoteric splatbook that we're putting out because we're not sure what else to put out anymore", etc.

That said, I do agree that they'd be well advised to make 4e as backwards compatible (mechanically, at least) as they can, and I've kinda started to guess that that's not been a priority for them after all. That's a real shame. There's a good chance---a very good chance---that I personally will continue playing 3.5 (when I play D&D at all) maybe with a few house rules adopted from 4e.

But I don't have any illusions about what that means in terms of the market in general. My tastes and preferences aren't indicative of the market as a whole by a long shot.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I didn't say that you couldn't have a successful company with that lineup. I said, and I stand by it, that you don't topple the dominant brand with that kind of lineup.

Gotcha. Agreed.

If the OPs intent is "I hope there is a company that can be successful supporting a game I want to play-- not 4e," then I think that's doable.

If the OPs intent is, "I hope somebody competes with WOTC and totally punishes them in the marketplace!" then I'd say he needs to grow up and get real.

 

[hewligan]

No. 3.75 branching of the game is a BAD IDEA. It could financially ruin Paizo as the fan base is splintered. How can people be so against 4e when it is not even released yet and all we have are snippets of information.

Be chill like the mango.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

How can people be so against 4e when it is not even released yet and all we have are snippets of information.

I don't need to actually see the meal to dislike the smell coming from the kitchen.

[/devil's advocate]

 

[Rechan]

I don't need to actually see the meal to dislike the smell coming from the kitchen.

Try some Kimchi sometime. Smells awful, tastes great.

 

[Nellisir]

Try some Kimchi sometime. Smells awful, tastes great.

Or durian. Tastes good, smells like...
" ... pig-[waste], turpentine and onions, garnished with a gym sock. It can be smelled from yards away. Despite its great local popularity, the raw fruit is forbidden from some establishments such as hotels, subways and airports, including public transportation in Southeast Asia."

 

[Desdichado]

You've managed to find too extremely bizarre examples and are holding them up as if they're indicative of something. The sense of taste and smell are very closely related, and by and large, 99+% of the time, if something smells terrible, it tastes terrible too.

Still---bringing up durian and kimchi to try and deflate a metaphor is pretty weak.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I would say - launch the Paizo Revolution! Market 3.75 on its merits but also as the “outsider” resisting the “abandonment” of D&D by 4e. Vive la Revolution! Vive la Paizo!

First off, 4e comes out in May 2008 not 2009. If you honestly think that Paizo could segment the market like this, your highly mistaken. They may be in a position to do so better then anyone else, but your kidding yourself if you think that it would have a lasting impact WotC numbers.

I suppose its possible if 4e does horribly, but I don't see that being the case. I feel really bad for the position that Paizo is in right now with their production schedule and I don't blame them for not changing editions mid stream with their adventure path, but I think its inevitable that they are bound to lose a ton of sales once 4e hits.