Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Steely Dan]

Seriously underwhelmed, I'll stick with my own 3.75 (a blend of 3.5, Saga, and what we know from 4th Ed) for the time being.

 

[Aeson]

That would be like McDonald's completely revamping their menu, having a few bad Quarters, and the local mom & pop burger joint buying them out.

You make it sound like it's impossible.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think it is a fair assessment. Everyone I know came back from D&DXP used similar language. They also used boardgame and MMO to describe the rules set. They really liked the game, but this is how they described it.

Well, sure. They came from a program designed (primarily) to showcase the changes to combat in the new edition, using an incomplete rules set. I can see how people might be leaning toward "board game" from that. Which is why I specifically said it was a complaint I'd never heard from people who had used the full rules.

Here's the thing, and it may be where some of us are talking at cross-purposes. I'm not claiming that 4E doesn't have some aspects of a board game. It encourages the use of a board, and it's a game.

But when people--maybe not all of them, but I'd hazard most--use the term "board game," they're not saying "a game that happens to use a board." They're referring to a particular type of game, anywhere from Monopoly to Chutes and Ladders.

And the type of game normally called a "board game" is--by implication, and possibly by actual definition--not a role-playing game.

That's the designation I'm objecting to: the notion that somehow, because it provides more tactical options than it used to, the new edition is somehow less of an RPG than it used to be. As though it had to be a zero-sum comparison.

IMO, some rules by their nature are conductive to roleplaying. They stimulate the imagination and help to set you in a specific mood. 4e does not seem to be such a set.

All I can says is, that's very much not been my own experience with the game.

 

[JoshuaFrost]

... I can see it breathing some life into the 3.5 rules that will help people keep playing long enough for Paizo to stay solvent until they can make a real decision between 3rd ed. and 4th ed ...

To be fair, we made our real decision a few days ago. Pathfinder is supporting the 3.5 OGL movement.

We'd like to support 4E and we're going to via our publishing partnership with Necromancer and hopefully in other ways that the hopefully-soon-to-be-released GSL might allow us to. Pathfinder will not be a part of that support, however.

 

[xechnao]

But when people--maybe not all of them, but I'd hazard most--use the term "board game," they're not saying "a game that happens to use a board." They're referring to a particular type of game, anywhere from Monopoly to Chutes and Ladders.

And the type of game normally called a "board game" is--by implication, and possibly by actual definition--not a role-playing game.

I think people in these threads when use the term "board game" intend games that use miniatures (each miniature carrying game rules) and a board like Rackham's Hybrid, GW Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Blood bowl, Mordheim.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think people in these threads when use the term "board game" intend games that use miniatures (each miniature carrying game rules) and a board like Rackham's Hybrid, GW Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Blood bowl, Mordheim or Wotc DDM.

But even if that's true--and I'm not sure it is for everyone--it's still not an accurate comparison.

DDM, for instance, is purely a tactical game. 4E may involve tactics almost as complex, and a similar board, but it also involves a lot more. So while it's certainly accurate to say the two have aspects in common, it's certainly not accurate to call them the same kind of game.

See the distinction?

 

[xechnao]

See the distinction?

Yes, 4e is a board game with some extra features added: the ones you find under "rituals" and "adventuring" chapters from the PHB.

Ok, to be fair I also grand to these features the "skills" chapter too.

 

[The Little Raven]

I think people in these threads when use the term "board game" intend games that use miniatures (each miniature carrying game rules) and a board like Rackham's Hybrid, GW Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Blood bowl, Mordheim.

Or like Dungeons & Dragons, the original boxed set published by TSR, widely considered the first roleplaying game, despite being closer to a board game than any edition since.

Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
And Miniature Figures

 

[The Little Raven]

Damn you Wiki!!!! You lied to meeeeeeeeee!

Really?

The game and toy giant Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast in September 1999.

 

[xechnao]

Or like Dungeons & Dragons, the original boxed set published by TSR, widely considered the first roleplaying game, despite being closer to a board game than any edition since.

Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
And Miniature Figures

I haven't played it but if you are right then yes, that will be probably be true till perhaps 4e.