Pathfinder 2E Paizo drops use of the word phylactery

[Warpiglet-7]

Weren’t holy symbols once called crosses? We should go back to that and see how folks react.

And don’t forget holy water

Gygax said crosses were a sort of lawful good symbol even though they were clearly disconnected from Christianity in the game.

context matters. Gygax was not trying to offend himself with crosses.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm more tepid on this name change than the Race to Ancestry change and Paladin to Champion. Race is a very loaded word so retiring it makes sense. Paladins being a sub-set of Champions future-proofed the entire class for all alignments/codes of conduct rather than baking in the LG aspects first and then overriding them later. I wasn't ever aware of people calling jewish people undead mages (if that's what was happening), so this wasn't a visible issue for me until the announcement, and instead of being replaced with an equally cool sounding or esoteric word they now go by the much more mundane "soul cage." I get that's what they do, cage a soul, but the name's rather plain.

Oh, goodness, the Blood Libel is very much an active problem in the real world, and the origin and upkeep of the Lich ties into that pretty directly. The literary antecedents of the Lich in pulp fiction, such as Robert E. Howard, were definitely Orientalist, and more than passing lyrics antisemitic.

Not saying thst D&D or any creators have ever been intending thst, but it is in the DNA of the idea.

 

[183231bcb]

I'm going to continue to use "soul-hidey-place."

 

[JThursby]

Oh, goodness, the Blood Libel is very much an active problem in the real world

Well reading about how relatively common this still is was depressing. I thought this kind of superstition was left behind decades ago.

The literary antecedents of the Lich in pulp fiction, such as Robert E. Howard, were definitely Orientalist, and more than passing lyrics antisemitic.

Liches are still in the game, still function the same. Hell, everyone knows just how bonkers Lovecraft's politics were and yet Pathfinder goes extensively out of it's way to include the Cthluhu Mythos and its creatures by name. If the primary audience of Pathfinder is expected to have the wherewithal to not take the inclusion of Lovecraft's work as a condoning of Lovecraft's political ideas it seems strange to assume people playing this game would take the use of the term phylactery as a reinforcing of negative stereotypes.

 

[Nilbog]

Nic Cage. A Liches weakness should definitely be Nic Cage.

 

[niklinna]

Curiously calling out "slippery slope fallacy" as if any argument concerned with a slope being slippery is inherently fallacious is, itself, a generalization fallacy.

I thought it was a Tomb of Horrors reference. Oh wait, that was a demi-lich. Oh wait, should I have marked that as a spoiler?

 

[John R Davis]

Can a good lich use a phylactery? So a wizard who protects the land is dying, his only recourse is to extend his existence. As alignment is becoming a non-thing, I don't see the issue with the P as not all liches are evil. Plus it is s very cool sounding word

 

[niklinna]

We used 'soul vessel' in Level Up.

That is about as precisely descriptive as you can get. (Since a soul vessel can presumably take just about any physical form.)

"Phylactery" was a misappropriation from the get-go, as the very last place a lich would want their soul is on their own person!

"Soul cage" is a bit confusing, because the first thing it evokes (for me) is keeping the soul confined, limiting its activity or mobility. It takes a bit of effort to think it's more akin to a shark cage, which is for protecting who's inside them rather then imprisoning them.

 

[Hussar]

I dunno. It technically is imprisoning a soul. The soul is supposed to pass on but the lunch is capturing his own soul in an unholy ritual that is probably more than a little unpleasant for said soul.

Soul cage hits the tone pretty well if we presume that the passage into lichdom is an abhorrent and evil act.

 

[Staffan]

Can a good lich use a phylactery? So a wizard who protects the land is dying, his only recourse is to extend his existence. As alignment is becoming a non-thing, I don't see the issue with the P as not all liches are evil. Plus it is s very cool sounding word

Looking at the 5e description of the lich here:

No wizard takes up the path to lichdom on a whim, and the process of becoming a lich is a well-guarded secret. Wizards that seek lichdom must make bargains with fiends, evil gods, or other foul entities. Many turn to Orcus, Demon Prince of Undeath, whose power has created countless liches. However, those that control the power of lichdom always demand fealty and service for their knowledge.
[...]
With its phylactery prepared, the future lich drinks a potion of transformation — a vile concoction of poison mixed with the blood of a sentient creature whose soul is sacrificed to the phylactery.
[...]
A lich must periodically feed souls to its phylactery to sustain the magic preserving its body and consciousness.

A lich has to bargain with the foulest of creatures and then murder sentient creatures to first become a lich, and then periodically to remain one. I would argue that a good lich is an impossibility*. Even if you would be able to do some moral calculus arguing that one soul every so often is "worth it", the process of becoming a lich would itself warp the wizard's mind to the point where they become evil. A good wizard in the situation you describe should instead seek a more sustainable method, such as training/recruiting replacements.

* I know previous editions have had archliches and baelnorns as "good liches", but I consider those to be supremely bad ideas and thus reject them entirely.