Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[TheYeti1775]

Well having just found out about this whole thing this morning as I sip my morning caffiene at work, I'm just shocked.

I went and did the Transition to the Pathfinder, but to tell you the truth spending $20 a month on that will be a dang hard sell after that transition period runs out.
I looked forward every month to scanning through my latest copy as the mailman dropped it off. So this is like a punch in the gut. And this isn't the first one by WOTC in this regard either.

 

[Schmoe]

Frankly, I'm pretty disappointed by this move, and more than a little surprised. Sitting in my corner, WotC's position that "digital content" is the place people go for game support content is absolutely, 100% misinformed. I have never, ever, bought an electronic document. I doubt that I ever will. I find the digital format to be extremely difficult to read, and extremely inconvenient. I can't print out a PDF with as good quality and bind it as well as a magazine that ships to my door. I can't bring my laptop in the car to browse while I'm sitting in traffic. I can't kick back with my laptop while I'm in bed to get in a few minutes of reading before nodding off. On top of that, I already spend 8-10 hours a day in front of the computer for my job. The last thing I want to do is spend more. So the justification in the press release holds no water here.

The is compounded by the fact that WotC's last promise for great electronic support (E-tools) fell flat on its face. So I don't have many expectations that WotC will use this decision as anything other than a way to limit competition with its own adventure products.

Looking at the effect on Paizo's products, it looks like a big challenge, but not without potential. Dragon and Dungeon were tried and true products, but the WotC license also prevented incorporating some (mostly 3rd party) material. They now can start bringing in all sorts of cool things, like monsters from the Tome of Horrors, or 3rd party prestige classes, or ties to 3rd party campaign settings. In fact, if Paizo can provide a medium to put all of the great 3rd party material to use on a regular, recurring basis, it may be that the 3rd party market will improve and flourish.

I don't really know how it will all play out, I just know that right now thinking of WotC gives me a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

 

[freebfrost]

just so you know danzig138 has offered to compensate WotC for all of the lost business this has caused.

i told him i buy on avg $200 per month.

anybody else want to add to danzig's bill?

Sure, I spend about $300 a month on average for WotC stuff (includes minis).

When can I expect my first check?

 

[diaglo]

Please contact them and let them know how you feel. Let them know you are upset and why. We've got to let them know that their customers are unhappy.

Chuck got an email from me too.

edit: Dear WotC,
I am a long time gamer. I am very upset with your decision to revoke Paizo's license. I will miss Dungeon and Dragon Magazines.

Until such time as you renew the license I must lodge my formal protest. I realize this is funny to you. But as much as it is my own personal opinion, please feel free to consider me lost to you. I spent on average $200 per month on your products.

Feel free to tell me when you renew the license,
David Temporado
diaglo "OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing"

 

[Reynard]

Because the best way to protest the cancellation of a venue for freelance designers to get work is to refuse to patronize another way for a lot of those very same freelancers to get work.

Oh, please. Speaking as a (former) RPG freelancer, suggesting that we as customers should reward a decision we don't like because someone else isn't going to get their 4 cents a word is just ridiculous. Getting work is nice and all, but a freelancer can't expect people to spend money just to prop them up. And they certainly shouldn't expect people to support *horrid* decisions by a company.

 

[morbiczer]

I'm saddened by this, but not surprised. For those of you who don't work within the newspaper or magazine industry, it's difficult to explain just how dramatically the Internet has changed everything. I'm a newspaper reporter, and the Internet has caused all newspapers in the U.S. to die a slow death in terms of circulation and ad sales. I'm sure it's the same with Dragon and Dungeon.

I guess this is true, but has not much to do with the issue at hand. For all we know, there were no problems with the profibility of Dungeon and Dragon for Paizo. There is nothing that would suggest that Paizo wouldn't have continued on producing both magazines if they have had the chance.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but it appears that actually the opposite was true. It seems that a) Dungeon hurt the sales of WotC adventures and b) WotC feared the competition of the two magazines when they launch their online thing.

So it could be argued that this decision by WotC was not because the magazines or the print magazine market in general had problems, but quite to the contrary, because the magazines were too good.


Something else:

Enworld is obviously only a small section of the D&D market + we aren't representative for the fanbase / buyers at whole. The avarage age here is certainly higher than the age of the avarage D&D custiomer. But I'm sure that it is not really a good sign if an announcement about a new INTERNET deal draws such a bad response from an INTERNET crowd.

 

[Reynard]

Looking at the effect on Paizo's products, it looks like a big challenge, but not without potential. Dragon and Dungeon were tried and true products, but the WotC license also prevented incorporating some (mostly 3rd party) material. They now can start bringing in all sorts of cool things, like monsters from the Tome of Horrors, or 3rd party prestige classes, or ties to 3rd party campaign settings. In fact, if Paizo can provide a medium to put all of the great 3rd party material to use on a regular, recurring basis, it may be that the 3rd party market will improve and flourish.

I think the draw of incorporating official, post SRD D&D content is greater than the draw of incorporating 3rd party material. Paizo didn't put "100% Official D&D Content" on the covers because they thought it looked pretty, you know.

 

[Brutorz Bill]

I've just got to chime in here as well. Dragon has always had a special place for me. I remember getting my very first one, many many years ago, and how the coolness factor just blew me away. I've been a fairly regular subscriber ever since. There just something about going out to your mailbox and thinking..."Oh man is my Dragon going to be in it" you get it and then hungrily scan through it, to see what stuff lurks therein. An On-line mag just doesn't do it for me. My job means I spend 7-8 hours a day staring at a computer screen. I'm not into doing that at home. As far as I'm concerned this is a bonehead decision, I'll spend my gaming dollar and time elsewhere. Good-Bye Wotc.
Later,
Brutorz Bill

 

[WhatGravitas]

I'm not the sort of person who boycotts things. But man, I am seriously thinking about it with this. I'm also thinking that if 4E isn't OGL, that's great. Necromancer, Paizo, Goodman can go one way, and Wizards can go another.

Heh. Not good, what happened here. And I got stoked for 4E after the Saga previews. But now I'll rather stick to AE, since... well without the magazines, there's nothing left holding me to "pure" D&D.

Furthermore... Pathfinder looks cool, really! But it's 4$ more expensive than both magazines together, and less than the magazines, even if you discount the ads. And I don't like to have the Dragon-y stuff in the same thing as my adventure-paths, makes it a lot harder to read, if someone plays in my campaign, but I understand why they're going that way.

So... the price difference (4$ x 12 = 48$)... guess who gets less hardcovers bought now.

EDIT: And voiced my opinion to WotC. These official student accounts from universities have an use, after all. To show them, that even younger customers are not that web-phile.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I guess another thing that galls me will be the uselessness of Pathfinder to me and my gaming group. I bought Dungeon when it premiered, but stopped after a handful of issues because my players always preferred the homebrew games I ran as opposed to published adventures. When Dungeon was combined with Polyhedron, I bought it for the latter's content. When they dropped that, I stopped buying it.

Dragon was a much richer source of gaming material for me than Dungeon. I'm not knocking the magazine, but it just wasn't something I could really use. With Pathfinder sounding like it's going to just be a very expensive version of Dungeon, I won't be able to afford it each month.