Pathfinder 2E Paizo Officially Supporting Foundry, Free Content Ending

[Justice and Rule]

With the prevalence of VTT now one positive of this is that its likely some combination of these products may be offered in the future at a reduced price for the combo. Kind of like the APs have with physical and PDF.

Given that they are also teaming up with Nexus, it'd be nice to have full integration of that stuff as well. In fact, that'd be an awesome selling point for Nexus.

 

[Retreater]

Given that they are also teaming up with Nexus, it'd be nice to have full integration of that stuff as well. In fact, that'd be an awesome selling point for Nexus.

I don't want to be sold on Nexus (or DND Beyond). I don't want to buy a bunch of piecemeal options to build characters, which are kept only as long as they are supported and we pay subscription fees.
As VTTs are becoming more prevalent ways to play, I expect to see more gates coming up, more nickel and diming, less stuff you get to keep. Restrictions on how many characters you can make. Maybe restrictions on how often you can open the character sheet? Maybe restrictions of what level of character you can play (until you pay to unlock high level content)?
This is the stuff they have the technology to do.
I guess I'm nervous because a) gaming is my main hobby, and b) online play is the only way I will be able to continue playing. I don't like voluntarily giving up control of how I play.

 

[payn]

I don't want to be sold on Nexus (or DND Beyond). I don't want to buy a bunch of piecemeal options to build characters, which are kept only as long as they are supported and we pay subscription fees.
As VTTs are becoming more prevalent ways to play, I expect to see more gates coming up, more nickel and diming, less stuff you get to keep. Restrictions on how many characters you can make. Maybe restrictions on how often you can open the character sheet? Maybe restrictions of what level of character you can play (until you pay to unlock high level content)?
This is the stuff they have the technology to do.
I guess I'm nervous because a) gaming is my main hobby, and b) online play is the only way I will be able to continue playing. I don't like voluntarily giving up control of how I play.

I mean, you dont need these things to play. You just need to sink the time in doing them yourself. I am actually impressed with whats available for free at this point.

 

[Retreater]

The implementation of PF2 on Roll20 was terrible. It was barely functional, and a lot of content was never released. The stuff on Foundry was better because fans made it. I don't expect to see satisfactory paid content on Foundry, if it's being handled the same way Roll20 is.

 

[JThursby]

I don't expect to see satisfactory paid content on Foundry, if it's being handled the same way Roll20 is.

I complained about the Roll20 content with a Paizo staffer once, and I learned something interesting: the Roll20 implementation was made by Roll20 themselves, and they wholly own it. Paizo can't actually alter or update anything on there. The funny part is that the PF2e community is fairly passionate and if Roll20 would let them work on the character sheet and whatnot for free some guys would probably do it.

I don't want to be sold on Nexus (or DND Beyond).

I'm still skeptical about Nexus as well. It hasn't yet done anything for me that the book releases, PDFs or Nethys already accomplishes.

As VTTs are becoming more prevalent ways to play, I expect to see more gates coming up, more nickel and diming, less stuff you get to keep. Restrictions on how many characters you can make. Maybe restrictions on how often you can open the character sheet? Maybe restrictions of what level of character you can play (until you pay to unlock high level content)?
This is the stuff they have the technology to do.

This is classic slippery slope rhetoric. Yesterday there was no paid content on Foundry, today there is some, tomorrow they will take away the free stuff, etc. There's no precedent of this extreme behavior from Paizo, or even a company like Wizards of the Coast. The only tabletop companies I can think of being this nakedly and self destructively greedy today are Games Workshop, with Andrews McMeel as a distant second. There's a reason the PF2e community settled on Foundry rather than, say, Fantasy Grounds. The Paizo clientele have developed an expectation of a high value return and not having services stand in the way of their hobby. Do you really expect that a company that rose to prominence via the Open Game License and maintains relevance via a liberal community use policy would just undo all of that in pursuit of a walled garden market?

 

[Justice and Rule]

I don't want to be sold on Nexus (or DND Beyond). I don't want to buy a bunch of piecemeal options to build characters, which are kept only as long as they are supported and we pay subscription fees.
As VTTs are becoming more prevalent ways to play, I expect to see more gates coming up, more nickel and diming, less stuff you get to keep. Restrictions on how many characters you can make. Maybe restrictions on how often you can open the character sheet? Maybe restrictions of what level of character you can play (until you pay to unlock high level content)?
This is the stuff they have the technology to do.
I guess I'm nervous because a) gaming is my main hobby, and b) online play is the only way I will be able to continue playing. I don't like voluntarily giving up control of how I play.

There's really nothing that indicates that's going to happen, and I'm honestly not sure that it could happen with PF2 given OGL. But I do like having official support for things, and having it for more things is always good.

Like, you don't need DND Beyond, but what it's good at doing is making things intelligible for people who don't live and breath 5E. And it'd be great to have that sort of access to Foundry rather than relegating it to a module that is basically fighting against the system.

And while I get not liking a subscription service, I'm okay with one as long as it's useful to me. When I was running 5E, I liked having DNDBeyond because it was an easy way to have all my players have access to books and be able to look at all their characters online. While I am a huge fan of Pathbuilder, I don't think it'll ever quite have that sort of functionality.

I mean, you dont need these things to play. You just need to sink the time in doing them yourself. I am actually impressed with whats available for free at this point.

I mean, the benefits of OGL, right?

I complained about the Roll20 content with a Paizo staffer once, and I learned something interesting: the Roll20 implementation was made by Roll20 themselves, and they wholly own it. Paizo can't actually alter or update anything on there. The funny part is that the PF2e community is fairly passionate and if Roll20 would let them work on the character sheet and whatnot for free some guys would probably do it.

Honestly, Roll20 just seems to have problems. I dunno if they've improved any of their stuff recently, but last I checked (September 2020 I think?) it wasn't great in general.

I'm still skeptical about Nexus as well. It hasn't yet done anything for me that the book releases, PDFs or Nethys already accomplishes.

I'm interested in seeing what they do. I mean, if I can get a bunch of campaigns across multiple systems being managed there, it would probably be worth it for me for the organization. But when it comes to reading, I do prefer standard PDFs.

This is classic slippery slope rhetoric. Yesterday there was no paid content on Foundry, today there is some, tomorrow they will take away the free stuff, etc. There's no precedent of this extreme behavior from Paizo, or even a company like Wizards of the Coast. The only tabletop companies I can think of being this nakedly and self destructively greedy today are Games Workshop, with Andrews McMeel as a distant second. There's a reason the PF2e community settled on Foundry rather than, say, Fantasy Grounds. The Paizo clientele have developed an expectation of a high value return and not having services stand in the way of their hobby. Do you really expect that a company that rose to prominence via the Open Game License and maintains relevance via a liberal community use policy would just undo all of that in pursuit of a walled garden market?

Again, I'm not sure that they can do much restriction given what they make available with OGL. Like, it'd require a huge shift in policy compared to what they've done in the past.

 

[willrali]

As a side note, as somebody who has gotten a glimpse into the costs of producing VTT content, it's eye-wateringly expensive. Much more so than producing the original books in the first place. When you buy the VTT version of something, you're not buying the same product twice, you're paying for the incredible amount of hard work it takes to convert that.

So much agreed. And I’ve always found it bemusing to see the behavior of a plurality of people in a bunch of sectors of the consumer economy. There’s this expectation that everything should come for free, or if not free then extremely cheap with unrealistic bang-for-buck. That if I’m paying you anything at all, then I’m doing you a favor and you’d better step up. It’s a bit aggravating.

With our rpgs, we’re getting amazing content for really low prices considering the overheads and volumes. I don’t buy the reasoning that since I’ve paid $20 for an AP already then I’m somehow entitled to a giant halo of labor for anything associated with that AP, at no extra charge.

 

[Retreater]

Just want to say that I'm not the cheapskate some of you are trying to portray me as being. I will gladly pay for content.
I just don't feel like dancing, making kissing videos, and being a complete corporate fanboy because Paizo has announced that they are going to start charging a premium for something we used to get for free. You know, I'm not going to celebrate just for the chance to give Paizo money. For something I was already getting.
It's like if your friends had a nice public access TV show they were filming in their basement and they decided to stop doing it (because it's honestly, a lot of work). And then Noah's Arcade comes in to buy it and sell you the episodes, more slickly produced by Rob Lowe. But then Rob Lowe steals your girlfriend, who is a totally rad rocker gal.
So I'm not going to cheer for Rob Lowe, you know what I mean?

 

[Morrus]

I just don't feel like dancing, making kissing videos,

That's OK. Don't dance and make kissing videos. Problem solved.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

I occasionally convert items for Fantasy Grounds and sell them on their store. Usually because I am going to use the material in my own game and a little extra effort is all it takes.

I did Tome of Horrors which is a large 5e monster book. The number of hours spent to the actual pay received is way out of proportion. I am fine as I am not trying to make a living from it, but every time I see people wanting something for free that takes actual effort …

Just wait until the foundry team decides that an official WoTC license and ability to actually sell WoTC material is the thing to do and all the “free” options are ended there as well.