Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Kingmaker's 10th anniversary is approaching. Paizo has announced on their blog that, along with a Pathfinder 2E hardcover Kingmaker compilation, they will be creating a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for D&D 5E.


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The blog announcement says "[FONT=&amp]Finally, we'll add a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E, developed in conjunction with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing, allowing players of the current edition of the world's oldest RPG the chance to experience the rich and detailed storylines that have made the Kingmaker Adventure Path a fan favorite for a decade."[/FONT]

It is being produced "with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing" and refers to "add-ons and unlocks" which "will be revealed as the campaign progresses". They're partnering with crowdfunding site Game On Tabletop.

They'll be revealing the details on Tuesday May 7th at noon Pacific time over at KingmakerCampaign.com.

Also in line is a Companion Guide for the PF2 Kingmaker campaign.
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

kenmarable

Explorer
On the one hand, she is a former employee with potentially an axe to grind. On the other, her narrative is plausible and would be excellent motivation for being an ex-employee with an axe to grind.

This certainly seems...bad...for the long term survivability of the business and game line.
Plus a lot of what she says isn't even opinion/inside-knowledge but publicly verifiable facts: Their previous Kickstarters for Pathfinder Online, and the current state of that project. Their Kickstarter with Ninja Division for Starfinder minis including their public posts about "I know people are worried based on Ninja Division's past, but it will be fine" and how that one turned out. The $999 shipping charge for many foreign addresses on this crowdfunding. Or even crowdfunding these books when they have simply published similar books as this as standard business for years. And so on.

So whatever narrative she wraps around it, all of those are facts about their crowdfunding history that anyone can see. So whether it's bad luck in choosing business partners or whether the narrative she puts around it is accurate is a big question, but at the very least she does a great job of bringing together that whole history - much of which is public knowledge. Make of it as you will. As you say, it certainly does not look good for long term prospects.
 

kenmarable

Explorer
She makes many good points. In addition to being forced to buy the AP in order to have the chance to buy the Bestiary, there were several red flags she pointed out that made me wary of backing this one.

That said, she also sounds very salty. Does anyone know what led to her no longer working for Paizo?
I don't recall specifics (and most of it, of course, wasn't real public), but the general impression seemed to be the "employee spoke up about harassment and workplace culture issues and gets fired" vs "employee is not a good fit and does not work with our customers well" sort of two sides that seems unfortunately common (especially it seems with women in male-dominated industries, but that's my editorializing).

Reading between the lines, as well as reading accounts of many other former employees, I 100% believe her version. More specifically, it seems to be a cultural view at Paizo that the customers are always right even when they are harassing and abusing the employees. It's telling that several former employees and formerly frequent freelancers won't even go to Paizo forums anymore because they claim that it is too toxic because Paizo is afraid that clamping down on that will drive customers away and hurt the business. Employees need to be friendly and nonconfrontational with customers.

Now, of course, that's just one side, and I'm quite open about my opinion on it. But seeing the same story across many former employees/freelancers, and giving up on the Paizo forums myself a while ago, it does seem quite believable.

So I suppose one person's "salty" is another person's "done putting up with BS." ;)
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
Reading between the lines, as well as reading accounts of many other former employees, I 100% believe her version. More specifically, it seems to be a cultural view at Paizo that the customers are always right even when they are harassing and abusing the employees. It's telling that several former employees and formerly frequent freelancers won't even go to Paizo forums anymore because they claim that it is too toxic because Paizo is afraid that clamping down on that will drive customers away and hurt the business. Employees need to be friendly and nonconfrontational with customers.

Now, of course, that's just one side, and I'm quite open about my opinion on it. But seeing the same story across many former employees/freelancers, and giving up on the Paizo forums myself a while ago, it does seem quite believable.
As a long-time participant on the Paizo site, I don't think it's any more toxic than here - and also pretty strongly moderated. There are times I've considered it more tightly moderated than here.
 

S'mon

Legend
Employees need to be friendly and nonconfrontational with customers.
That was never exactly Price's strong suit... she had a really negative effect on the tone* of the Paizo forums when I was posting there, and it seems to have been what eventually got her fired (twice). OTOH I don't particularly doubt her inside-dirt take on Paizo's business, it certainly seems plausible, and not particularly out of line for small businesses struggling to get by. Of course she leaves out all the good things about Paizo, things which likely attracted her there in the first place.

*When you register at Paizo forums you get a note "We want our forums to be a fun and
happy place", asking posters to be polite and kind. The vast majority of posters take the message on board. Paizo's employee Jessica Price was a very notable exception!
 

S'mon

Legend
I don't recall specifics (and most of it, of course, wasn't real public), but the general impression seemed to be the "employee spoke up about harassment and workplace culture issues and gets fired" vs "employee is not a good fit and does not work with our customers well" sort of two sides that seems unfortunately common (especially it seems with women in male-dominated industries, but that's my editorializing).
I think Lisa Stevens has always done her best to be fair to everyone at her company, and is not a whip-cracking instrument of Patriarchal Oppression.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
This could be something akin to a new Osborne effect.

The Paizo effect: giving off the appearance (true or false) to be desperate enough that your future product really will tank.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
The only reason I haven’t backed yet is that I’m unfamiliar with the crowdfunding site being used. But I’m sure I will before the end.
 

S'mon

Legend
It's not a terribly excellent deal, financially, and it could he that the natural audience (Pathfinder players) all ready have the original AP and don't want a PF2 version.
$50 pdf certainly seems high for a kickstarter. $80 for the print version, when I'd expect to pay around $60 retail for the AP hardback.
 

Parmandur

Legend
$50 pdf certainly seems high for a kickstarter. $80 for the print version, when I'd expect to pay around $60 retail for the AP hardback.
Not to mention needing to pay more to get a second book to use it with PF1 or 5E, the two systems people would most likely want to use...
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Not that bad a price. If you bought the PDFs of Kingmaker individually it's more than $50 iirc.

I assume that includes the 5E conversion.

It's not hard to run Kingmaker 5E anyway. It lacks a lot of later Pathfinder splat material.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Not that bad a price. If you bought the PDFs of Kingmaker individually it's more than $50 iirc.

I assume that includes the 5E conversion.

It's not hard to run Kingmaker 5E anyway. It lacks a lot of later Pathfinder splat material.
No, it does not include any 5E material: the PDF version for PF2 is $50, the print is $80, and the 5E conversion material is a $35 add-on product in print and PDF (as is the $35 Pathfinder 1 conversion product). So $85, minimum, to get this AP in 5E or PF1.
 
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Zardnaar

Hero
Cheers I was thinking of the individual adventures. And have not bought Pathfinder PDFs outside of a humble bundle since 2012.
 

wakedown

Explorer
Too much friction on making this purchase...

Funny the first time I clicked on the site McAfee wouldn't let me go through (I imagine it's because kingmakercampaign.com isn't available via HTTPS and only HTTP). Once I added the exception I was a bit surprised it was $50 for a PDF. Usually a crowdfunded campaign gives you a sweet deal on the PDF (<$30) and including the hardcover would be in the $50-60 range.

Given it won't likely be available until mid-to-late 2020, I'd imagine this is something that ends up being discounted during Paizo's holiday sales. A lot of the APs end up very very inexpensive during that time (like $5 per installment). So given you'd be waiting for probably over a year anyway, I figure might as well wait until the 2020 holiday sales on this one.

(plus it's also not just simply on Kickstarter, so more friction too)
 

EthanSental

Explorer
I was on the fence about the 5e purchase but climbed off when I had to pay $85 for it and things I don’t really want. Paizo and Lisa “seem” to be following TSR and Lorraine Williams business model of producing too much, speculating in an MMO and failing like the card game TSR came up with and
failed. Hopefully with PF 2e they don’t flood the market and slow down the release schedule slightly.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
Per that Twitter thread your card is charged immediately upon purchase (which apparently is different from regular Kickstarter?)
 

dave2008

Adventurer
Per that Twitter thread your card is charged immediately upon purchase (which apparently is different from regular Kickstarter?)
Yes, with Kickstarter you are not charged until the campaign ends (regardless of when it is "funded"). Up until the end of the campaign you can remove or modify your pledge.
 

dave2008

Adventurer
Interestingly the Bestiary is not the only 5e conversion they are offering. There is also the "Forest Kingom" add-on, whatever that is.

I would be interested if I could just get the 5e content, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 

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