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Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Kingmaker's 10th anniversary is approaching. Paizo has announced on their blog that, along with a Pathfinder 2E hardcover Kingmaker compilation, they will be creating a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for D&D 5E.


20190502-Kingmaker_500.jpg


The blog announcement says "[FONT=&amp]Finally, we'll add a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E, developed in conjunction with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing, allowing players of the current edition of the world's oldest RPG the chance to experience the rich and detailed storylines that have made the Kingmaker Adventure Path a fan favorite for a decade."[/FONT]

It is being produced "with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing" and refers to "add-ons and unlocks" which "will be revealed as the campaign progresses". They're partnering with crowdfunding site Game On Tabletop.

They'll be revealing the details on Tuesday May 7th at noon Pacific time over at KingmakerCampaign.com.

Also in line is a Companion Guide for the PF2 Kingmaker campaign.
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

Jester David

Villager
That assumes they were actually reprinted - but Paizo generally doesn't reprint their APs. They may have been out of stock by then, though. Does anybody know for sure whether Kingmaker actually got reprinted?
By "reprint" I mean "hardcover collection & revision". No AP was simply reprinted.
 

Jester David

Villager
Well, obviously it's going to peak sometime, there's only so many human beings. ;) But "geek aligned" is now mainstream pop culture. A movie about freaking *Thanos and the Infinity Stones* of all things just made $2 billion in a couple weeks.

Also, if we are discussing anecdotal evidence, the past 6 months I have seen more new players than in the 6 months before that which was more than the 6 months before that, and so on. I expect the next 6 months to have more new players than the past 6 months. Sure, there were a ridiculous number of new players in 2017 and 2018, but from what I have seen, new player acquisition is still accelerating, not peaking or slowing down at all. So there may very well be an even ridculouser number of new players in 2019, and possibly even 2020.

So *my* gut feeling is that 5e has quite a ways to go before it peaks. :)

But either way, it's just our gut feelings and anecdotal evidence pointing in opposite directions. Neither of which is any actual evidence of the reality of the situation.
Sure. But after two seasons of Stranger Things and the appearances on Big Bang Theory plus the phenomena that is Critical Role over the last two years... where are all these nerds that want to play D&D but haven't started yet?

I'd hesitate to call this a "guess" even. Because it does feel like just a vague prediction. I wouldn't even bet a single cent that I was right. (Well... a few cents maybe. Nothing more than a dime. Maybe a buck.)
I just think we're at or near "peak D&D" and should expect it to flatten in growth.

Also... do we really want it to get much bigger? It already feels like the D&D team is losing some of the approachability they've had the last few years. And the big conventions like GenCon are becoming harder to gain access to.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Sure. But after two seasons of Stranger Things and the appearances on Big Bang Theory plus the phenomena that is Critical Role over the last two years... where are all these nerds that want to play D&D but haven't started yet?
Despite claims to the contrary, if you're not inside the D&D world but are curious it's actually quite hard to find a group of people to play with. So there could be a large number of people still lurking, waiting for a game to arise. And, no, the FLGS is not an appealing resource to many people.
 

kenmarable

Explorer
...where are all these nerds that want to play D&D but haven't started yet?
That's one of the issues right there. You keep wondering where are all the geeks and nerds who aren't playing, but the reality is that it's not just geeks & nerds who are playing anymore (or, more likely, there are so many nerds now that the definition is approaching meaningless). D&D is not just for nerds.
 
If 5e is starting to slow down, they certainly timed it right, being 2 years out from the movie (and possibly 6e). By the time "5e is in trouble" becomes accepted, it will be drowned out by other things.
 
Gonna nitpick here. The first volumes of the AP went out of print in 2013. I snatched up one of the last few copies of the AP back then. It and Skull & Shackles were the APs that went OOP surprisingly fast, and have been high on the fan speculation as being future reprints since.
But the later volumes (which always sell more slowly) might have just recently sold out...
I stand corrected. Paizo usually lists sales for thier product that they are running out of and during the most recent of those (which was sometime last year I think) I noticed copies of the Kingmaker AP on that sale list. Those probably WERE some of the later volumes as opposed to the earlier ones.
 

Wrathamon

Explorer
Maybe Critical Role got the bump because 5e was so successful and they were able to attract a big audience because of D&D being back.

In return, their success helps extend its dominance.
 

S'mon

Hero
Sure. But after two seasons of Stranger Things and the appearances on Big Bang Theory plus the phenomena that is Critical Role over the last two years... where are all these
From what I see on the D&D UK Facebook group there's still a TON of people who want to play but have no group and not much idea how to get started. The rate of newbie arrival seems to be
increasing if anything. It's almost like the early-80s fad except it's 16-20 year olds not 10-14
year olds, and 50% female not 90% male.
 

Mistwell

Adventurer
We can debate if Critical Role was a major reason for 5e's success, but I think it's pretty absurd to argue Stranger Things caused the popularity of 5e. The first D&D episode of Stranger Things was too far into 5e's existing success to credit Stranger Things with the success.
 

Parmandur

Adventurer
The thing is, while I disagree with that d00d on more than a few things? I dont think that he's entirely WRONG about this part.

5E WAS popular within the TTRPG community in those two years. As an alternative to both 4E and the crunchier games like Pathfinder. People who abandoned D&D during 4E returned to play this easier, simpler game.

But OUTSIDE of the TTRPG community is where STRANGER THINGS and CRITICAL ROLE were most influential and drew in people who were unaware that TTRPG's were still a thing. Even better, with CRITICAL ROLE they were able to actually SEE what a TTRPG WAS or HOW IT COULD BE. It's one thing to explain to a person who is completely unfamiliar with RPG's how the game is played. But when they are able to go on youtube and watch an episode and have it click with them and then maybe even have them go "Well I want to play or run a game like THAT." That is what I think boosted the popularity of D&D 5E into the stratisphere.

I knew that 5E was popular when around a year or two ago I was in Midtown Comics in Times Square and overheard not one but TWO different groups of people talking about their D&D groups in relation to CRITICAL ROLE.

Hell the only reason I have the 5E core books is because of CRITICAL ROLE. I'm a pretty dedicated Pathfinder GM but I had to pickup the books becasue I wanted to know the rules. :).
That's not accurate: before Stranger Things happened, or Critical Role became big, 5E had already outsold 3E, 3.5 and 4E COMBINED. And then the growth accelerated, sure.
 

Hussar

Legend
It shouldn't be. I mean, look at Troll Lord Games--they produce adventures and setting books for both D&D 5E and their own Castles and Crusades game. With PDF and POD, the only real sunk cost is the time and effort to produce the two versions; it's not like they have to commit to a set print run for either product.
There is another issue there though. Troll Lord Games didn't really brand itself as "The alternative to WotC". Paizo, or at least some of Paizo's loudest supporters anyway, tout Paizo as the "anti-WotC", and have spent considerable time and effort trying to show that Paizo is daring to be different.

If Paizo then turns around and starts supporting 5e, suddenly that whole brand identity gets called into question. Folks that spent years vilifying WotC aren't suddenly going to start singing hosannas to WotC. They are very much going to see any 5e and WotC connections as an insult.
 

Staffan

Explorer
We can debate if Critical Role was a major reason for 5e's success, but I think it's pretty absurd to argue Stranger Things caused the popularity of 5e. The first D&D episode of Stranger Things was too far into 5e's existing success to credit Stranger Things with the success.
Stranger Things certainly helped, though. If nothing else, by bringing awareness of the game to a more mainstream audience, and showing it in a positive light.

Now, that probably wouldn't have done much if 5e wasn't a damn good game to begin with, but I find it hard to believe that Stranger Things wasn't more than a blip on the radar.
 

darjr

I crit!
This was really only a 3E problem as it was not shared by 4E or pre-3E. Furthermore, a lot of these lessons have already been taken to heart by the OSR market, which has arguably done a better job than 5E at providing easy pick-up-and-play games, though this also owes to influences from PbtA (e.g., playbooks). Also, like others have already said, I don't think that the bulk of 5E players are aware of or care about LFQW.

Conversely, if PF2 is too similar to 5E, then why should gamers bother with it either? Because it would remain substantially easier for gamers to stay with playing proper 5E alongside their friends than abandoning ship to play a "5E Heartbreaker." Even as large as 5E is, I don't think that the 5E crunch gap is particularly wide enough for Paizo to establish itself as a company. I think that you overestimate the demand for what you want from "High Crunch 5E."

This was the problem that many MMO developers faced when creating MMOs to compete against World of Warcraft. Many MMOs were creating WoW-esque MMOs only to discover that most people were sticking with WoW. Why? Because that was what everyone else was playing and these other games were not different enough to warrant playing these other games for prolonged periods. Including WoW most people nowadays speak of the "Big 4" MMOs (i.e., World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 14, Guild Wars 2, and Elder Scrolls Online). Excluding WoW, each have enough significant differences from WoW that have warranted their respective fanbases.

I am uncertain whether Paizo can position themselves there. My understanding is that the 5E OGL is not as open source as the d20 OGL.

It is the exact same license.
 

darjr

I crit!
As for new players I bet I could run a new game for new players around here every day for months.

My boss and others at work have strongly hinted I should run over lunch.
 

Parmandur

Adventurer
Stranger Things certainly helped, though. If nothing else, by bringing awareness of the game to a more mainstream audience, and showing it in a positive light.

Now, that probably wouldn't have done much if 5e wasn't a damn good game to begin with, but I find it hard to believe that Stranger Things wasn't more than a blip on the radar.
Certainly helped, but 5E was already the bestseller by that time
 

Mistwell

Adventurer
Stranger Things certainly helped, though. If nothing else, by bringing awareness of the game to a more mainstream audience, and showing it in a positive light.

Now, that probably wouldn't have done much if 5e wasn't a damn good game to begin with, but I find it hard to believe that Stranger Things wasn't more than a blip on the radar.
I am sure it helped somewhat since the episodes started to air, but given D&D 5e had already been out for more than 2 years prior to the first D&D episode of Stranger Things, and was CRUSHING IT in all sales indicators (Amazon, Barnes and Noble, NYT Best Seller list, online platforms games played, ICv2 rankings of game store sales, Hasbro CEO official financial report mention, statement from WOTC 5e designers it had sold more than 3e and 4 combined, number of core book reprints including a couple reprints issued suddenly as store stocks went unexpectedly dry, etc..) before that first D&D episode of Stranger Things, I think it's just patently false to claim that Stranger Things is the reason 5e became popular. Which is what [MENTION=83630]Jharet[/MENTION] appeared to be arguing when he said, "Let's get one thing straight. 5e is only popular because of Stranger Things and the Critical Role folks."

Mind you, this is also the same guy who said he'd never seen Critical Role but his players had and they told him his game is better than Critical Roles game. So I guess if Pathfinder isn't as popular as 5e, and 5e is only popular because of Critical Role, then he only has himself to blame for Pathfinder not being as popular as 5e since he should have been broadcasting his games online and becoming a millionaire by now while boosting Pathfinder beyond 5e in sales (despite Critical Role having started as Pathfinder and abandoning Pathfinder because it didn't translate well to an audience). :)
 
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Mercador

Explorer
I think 5E is popular because "being different" is now popular. Nowadays, everything out of the norm is touted, being geek is cool, etc. It could have been the 4E or the 9E, it doesn't really matters, it's quite the age we're living in.

As for PF2E, I still don't get it, you split your smaller playerbase (smaller than 5E obviously) and with the not-really-succesful Starfinder, I wouldn't be really optimistic. I guess I might still buy it, but as a longtime devotee of the PF1E, I didn't even buy the PF2E beta and, right now, I don't plan to buy the PS2E official release either. However, I did buy the 5E core rules giftset last fall (haven't read it yet though).
 

Parmandur

Adventurer
I think 5E is popular because "being different" is now popular. Nowadays, everything out of the norm is touted, being geek is cool, etc. It could have been the 4E or the 9E, it doesn't really matters, it's quite the age we're living in.

As for PF2E, I still don't get it, you split your smaller playerbase (smaller than 5E obviously) and with the not-really-succesful Starfinder, I wouldn't be really optimistic. I guess I might still buy it, but as a longtime devotee of the PF1E, I didn't even buy the PF2E beta and, right now, I don't plan to buy the PS2E official release either. However, I did buy the 5E core rules giftset last fall (haven't read it yet though).
I'm given to understand that Starfinder is fairly successful?
 

Azzy

Explorer
I think 5E is popular because "being different" is now popular. Nowadays, everything out of the norm is touted, being geek is cool, etc.
Eh, I don't see that. It's not that "being different" is popular (any more than it's ever been given the history of counter culture), it's that geekish delights have just become mainstream—it's like in the 90s when everybody started liking "alternative" music and alternative became the new pop (much to the chagrin and morbid fascination of those that had been listening to said "alternative" bands before everyone jumped on the bandwagon—hipsters are not a new thing).

It could have been the 4E or the 9E, it doesn't really matters, it's quite the age we're living in.
Perhaps. But given that 5e is more accessible than 4e or 5e (like "basic" D&D was compared to AD&D decades ago), that might help.
 

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