D&D 5E Paladin and 'disease' - your ruling on this matter, please

[Herobizkit]

I have plans for a Paladin to encounter an "undead treant" whose CR is far above her level. I am taking much of my inspiration from this creature as seen here, and one ability in particular has me curious.

Fungus (Ex)

The [undead treant]’s branches are encrusted with a virulent fungus that grows rapidly when in contact with blood, sending filaments ripping through the bodies of any living creatures damaged by its slams and dealing 1d6 points of Dexterity damage in the process. A creature brought to 0 Dexterity by this effect is slain.

Given that 'diseases' in 5e generally have a mid- to long-term incubation period and require saves, and this infestation's incubation is immediate with no saving throw, would you rule that Fungus counts or does not count as a 'disease' for purposes of Paladin immunity?

 

[iserith]

It seems more like a poison than a disease. Are there any ability score damaging effects in D&D 5e though?

 

[Fanaelialae]

It seems more like a poison than a disease. Are there any ability score damaging effects in D&D 5e though?

Shadows have Strength drain.

 

[steeldragons]

I have plans for a Paladin to encounter an "undead treant" whose CR is far above her level. I am taking much of my inspiration from this creature as seen here, and one ability in particular has me curious.

Given that 'diseases' in 5e generally have a mid- to long-term incubation period and require saves, and this infestation's incubation is immediate with no saving throw, would you rule that Fungus counts or does not count as a 'disease' for purposes of Paladin immunity?

No. Basically, it may sound like it acts like a disease. But that doesn't make it one. It is an "infection", sure. Just as real world bodies are subject to fungal infections. But it is not a disease.

If you want to argue that a fungus is the same -or "close enough" for the paladin's ability- as a bacteria or virus, then that's your call. I would not permit it.

Paladin's disease immunity does not protect them from this. Which might be a lovely [horrifying] surprise for them as well.

It seems more like a poison than a disease. Are there any ability score damaging effects in D&D 5e though?

There are. Shadows drain Strength directly. Intellect Devourers drain Intelligence (though it's only a "stun" effect until you get 1 pt. back). There are probably others, but it is quite a rare ability.

"Energy Drain", as it once was, does not exist. Wights, Wraiths, Succubi/Incubi, Night Hags, et al. who used to be able to "Energy Drain" now do damage to/reduce the PC's "hit point maximum" and if that gets reduced to 0, you die. So it's not a sucking Experience Levels or Con. points anymore.

 

[Rune]

I wouldn't rule it as a disease unless it specifically said it was. It's really more like a parasite infestation, anyway.

There is no way I would do auto DEX damage, though. There should definitely be a Con save involved. To keep things simple, I wouldn't fool with DEX damage at all, actually. Slap on the poisoned condition and some extra slashing damage (in line with whatever it's CR is) on a failed save. That oughta do it.

 

[Paraxis]

No it is not a disease, paladins in pathfinder or 5e would not be immune to this ability.

Saying that, I would certainly not use that ability as written in 5e, especially not in a solo 1 on 1 fight.

In 5e I would count this fungus attack as a type of poison, something like 2d8 extra poison damage and inflicts the poisoned condition DC 15 Con check at the end of your turn to remove the poison condition.

 

[Sunseeker]

Yeah, I agree that I wouldn't run it as is. You'd waste that character pretty quickly, especially if they're a low-dex paladin (1d6 will kick that in 2-3 rounds) or a high-dex, light-armor paladin (creating something of a death spiral). I would definitely include a con-check to first and foremost, not take damage, and secondly to completely fight it off. If you want the latter to be hard, just make a save on a 15 and a "cure" on a nat 20.

Though, insert query: why are you having the paladin encounter an arguably CR 14 monster, on their own, and as stated way above their level? Do you want to kill them?

 

[Quartz]

This is not going to be a combat encounter, so what do you want to happen?

Mechanically, I'd suggest using the Exhaustion system as the parasite gradually takes over if the paladin does get zapped.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

No. Basically, it may sound like it acts like a disease. But that doesn't make it one. It is an "infection", sure. Just as real world bodies are subject to fungal infections. But it is not a disease.

If you want to argue that a fungus is the same -or "close enough" for the paladin's ability- as a bacteria or virus, then that's your call. I would not permit it.

Paladin's disease immunity does not protect them from this. Which might be a lovely [horrifying] surprise for them as well.

Speaking as a health care professional and former biologist - this is completely wrong. Disease is by far the more broad and encompassing term. ALL infections that cause impairment of the host organism are "diseases" (or result in diseases; the technical labels of the two may differ). Not all diseases are caused by infection (e.g. heart disease).

The paladin should be immune.

 

[steeldragons]

I was speaking as a DM, not a health care professional or biologist. But nice to know how you'd rule at your table.

Biology definitions aside, I still wouldn't permit it. This isn't an illness he facing, which is the obvious "common sense" purpose of the paladin's disease immunity. As others have said, it seems more like a kind of "poison" effect, in game terms, than a "disease" one.

I still would not allow it. I like the exhaustion idea, but would probably add it on top of damage...though Dex. ability damage, as written, is kind of steep. I might just go with straight HP damage + exhaustion or look at other poisons in the DMG to get an idea of appropriate/approximate equivalents.