Paladin balanced without RP/alignment restrictions?

[Jeff Wilder]

Is the paladin a balanced class without the alignment and "code of honor" restrictions? Why or why not?

 

[Endur]

Yes, the class is balanced with Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, etc. The alignment restrictions and code of honor are just there for flavor.

Is the paladin a balanced class without the alignment and "code of honor" restrictions? Why or why not?

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. I can only say that I see many storyhours here where high level paladins outshine their fighterbuddies... They are usually as good at dishing out damage and better at surviving due to high saves.

And their mounts are not too weak either.

 

[argo]

With really high stats (32+ points) a pally can get prety powerful. And of course if your campagin is nothing but a war vs undead and evil outsiders the paladin is going to shine. But in general I do not think that the paladin is mechanically more powerful than a ftr or barb. So I do not think the code/RP restrictions are needed to balance the class abilities.

I do however think that the code is a good way to balance RP benefits that most paladin's do/should get. If a paladin can not tell a lie without losing his powers then anyone who knows the character to be a paladin should accept his word as golden truth. If a paladin must tithe to his church then he should always be able to count on his church for a measure of support. I think that if the player and DM both understand that there are two forms of balance at play, mechanics and RP, then the code is just fine.

 

[reapersaurus]

There is absolutely NO problem with a Paladin's power level.

Removing restrictions would in no way endanger the balance of the class.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I think that without restrictions it becomes the ultimate melee munchkin class. The immunity to fear and great saves is very helpful. Fear is a definite concern for the majority of classes with poor will saves. Alot creatures give off fear and both arcane and divine casters can cast fear. The improved saves is a huge boon as well. Not to mention the perk of being able to heal yourself and a nice mount as well. The Paladin would be completely imbalanced without the restrictions.

As it is Paladins are the most powerful melee class in the game for Player vs. Adventure type games, which is the majority of D&D games. I have played many Paladins, they are strong.

 

[Darklone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "uberpower or not" of the paladin class goes with Divine Might or not... without it, he's a little subpar the other melee classes, with it, he'll be better at higher levels, available stat boosters or higher starting attributes.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "uberpower or not" of the paladin class goes with Divine Might or not... without it, he's a little subpar the other melee classes, with it, he'll be better at higher levels, available stat boosters or higher starting attributes.

I don't think Divine Might is necessary to make a Paladin powerful. A Paladin is in no way subpar to the other melee classes, a little less versatile in combat, but great abilities for adventuring.

What benefits does a fighter get?

Feats

Good BAB

Very reliant on equipment.


What benefits does a Paladin get?

Immunity to Fear (Huge advantage.)

Smite evil

Excellent save bonuses dependent on Charisma.

Self healing.

Ability to remove disease

Detect Evil at will. Nice for ferreting out the bad guys.

Very nice spells that allow them to align their weapon to good (Bless Weapon very good for D&D 3.5), do extra damage (Divine Sacrifice or Divine Favor), boost their attack bonus (Bless), cure themselves, gain energy resistance, ward themselves against death magic or negative energy effects, full heal their mount, and other nifty little things.

Access to wands, scrolls and staves that cast spells from their spell list. Wand of Divine Favor or Wand of Cure Light or Moderate Wounds is great for downtime healing.

Access to a mount. The mount can be quite strong if your DM allows a mount other than a horse. My Paladin rides a half-dragon Direlion. He is very tough and helps out alot though I had to wait till 12th level to receive such a mount.

Paladins are very strong. The strongest of the melee classes bar none. A non-evil fighter might beat a Paladin in a one-on-one duel, but a Paladin is better equipped to survive an adventuring career or a duel with a caster.

 

[Nifft]

Paladins are quite strong in melee, no doubt about it. IMHO they shouldn't be compared to single-class Fighters, though -- try comparing them to Barbarians, the other strong melee class.

-- N

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I do however think that the code is a good way to balance RP benefits that most paladin's do/should get. If a paladin can not tell a lie without losing his powers then anyone who knows the character to be a paladin should accept his word as golden truth.

How does the person the paladin is talking to even know he's a paladin? Looks like a cleric to me, and we all know they can lie. Besides, he could be telling the Aes Sedai version of the truth. The only evidence he has is a fancy horse, unless the person he's talking to has a really good Spellcraft check.

And what does "a measure of support" mean? It's not defined. (I hope some poor DM isn't going to hand out clerics as "shock troops".) This is exactly the same sort of support a cleric should expect, and the cleric pays a much lower RP price than the paladin.

I found fear gets really weak as soon as you can cast hero's feast - and of course the mount is not immune to fear.

But never mind that. Using just core rules I've found paladins to be strong, but they are not a match for a fighter or a barbarian. They're not supposed to be, though - they've got those massive saving throw bonuses.