Paladin Design Goals ... WotC Blog

[grimslade]

Paladins are a tough nut to crack. They are champions to be sure. Fearless I get. Divine empowered with the smiting, laying on of hands, and spells I can get down with that. I am not seeing a lot of change or differentiation from a more martial focused cleric. Missed opportunity.

I don't mind the expansion of paladin to include other Lawfuls. Lawful Neutral would be impersonal Judge Dredd types, living embodiments of the law even if the law is evil. Lawful evil paladins would be angel slayers and maintainers of tyranny. This all ties back to a code. There must be a code to follow at its core. Not a deity, not a feeling or virtue, a code. These paladins are men and women who have bound themselves to a code tighter than a sinner selling his soul to a devil. They break their code they break a part of themselves. This is what causes the loss of abilities not a punishment from above (or below) but a psychotic break.

Codes may align with philosophies or deities but they are not required. A paladin will defy a god before their code. They are oddly unreliable this way. Their reliance on their code provides them with power to fight those they oppose. Demons for LG, Slaads and fey for LN, guardinals and good fey for LE. They can feel their antithesis as an uneasiness a chill up their spine maybe a headache or nausea, not align-dar but an awareness. Spells should bring the thunder to foes, either by buffing self or allies. Damage should still be delivered by weapon.

I could care less about a poke-mount. I would prefer a bonus to charge as well. Halfling paladins summoning dogs could at least use them in a dungeon.

 

[underfoot007ct]

The only thing I saw in that list that said "distinct paladin" to me was the code. Everything else could just as well be some variation on fighter/cleric. The code itself would make a great theme (or set of themes). It's a shame that the prior history will lock us into paladin as a class.

Since the "Paladin class" goes back to 1975 OD&D, why do you feel the current need to replace him with a Fighter/Cleric?

 

[Greg K]

When I think of paladins, the classic archetypes are the likes of Lancelot, Gawain and Roland.

However, when considering more modern examples, and the attitudes and actions (not neccesarily abilities), I come up with this list:

Luke Skywalker
The T800 Terminator from T2/T3
Batman
Superman
"Blondie"/Man With No Name from Good, Bad and the Ugly/Fistful of Dollars
Flash Gordon
Optimus Prime
The Bride from Kill Bill 1/2
Snake-Eyes from GI Joe

As long as the design space allows us to develop characters like this, plus the classic archtypes, I'll be happy.

For myself I think of paladins as Roland, Galahad, Percival, Joan of Arc. and Lancelot before sleeping with the Queen. Maybe, Bors.

Gawain might depend on which version. In the early versions and Mallory which draws upon them, it is my understanding that, "he is depicted as a proud and worldly knight who demonstrates through his failures the danger of neglecting the spirit for the futile gifts of the material world. On the Grail quest, his intentions are always the purest, but he is unable to use God's grace to see the error in his ways. " This sounds like a Lawful Good Fight or LG Knight, but not a paladin. However, if you go with the English versions prior to Mallory, for example the Green Knight, possibly he is a Paladin or still a Lawful Good Knight

From your modern list, I might consider Luke, but not the others. Some might be Lawful God and/or have personal codes, but I don't consider them paladins. If there was a knight/cavalier class I would accept a few of them to be "knights", but Knight/Cavalier != Paladin in my opinion.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I'm... okay with this version of a paladin. I prefer a more showey angelic paladin but a beefed up 3e paladin is alright. The older versions of the paladin were barely a class. Basically just a way to get full combat ability with some spells. Going back to that is not my preference.

Take a gander at this paladin.

 

[Greg K]

I think the restriction to Lawful alignments makes perfect sense if the defining characteristic of the Paladin is the selfless devotion to his code. That code could require respect for the lives and dignity of other people.

I think it is more specific than that. I think it is a divine code and following that code grants divine favor from the deity and for the Paladin it is a Lawful Good code based on the deity's teaching. This is why I don't consider Batman, Superman, The Man with No Name etc. Paladins. If there was a knight/champion class or fighter theme for those with non-divine codes, that is more fitting to me.

I like the idea of Turn Undead working against Outsiders. I actually think the Paladin might be better off if it only worked against extra-planar creatures like Angels, Devils, and Demons

I pretty much agree. I would include any evil extraplanar creature that might fit (e.g, spirits, elementals, djinn, etc.) and specific free willed undead (e.g, vampires, but not skeletons and zombies).

 

[Minigiant]

Take a gander at this paladin.

Still not flashy enough. I want the paladin to progressively transform from a faithful man to a being of channel divine power. Evolving into something that resembles an angel (or devil). Completely with optional wings, tongues at will, elemental resistances, regeneration, steel hard skin, an optional super mount, magic sight, and maybe his or her own background music.

Basically a REALLY GOOD "monster" like how the monk turns into a mystic outsider.

 

[P1NBACK]

Why the heck can't a Chaotic Good Deity have Holy Warriors? Feh.

Because the entire concept of following a "code" is lawful...

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Still not flashy enough. I want the paladin to progressively transform from a faithful man to a being of channel divine power. Evolving into something that resembles an angel (or devil). Completely with optional wings, tongues at will, elemental resistances, regeneration, steel hard skin, an optional super mount, magic sight, and maybe his or her own background music.

Basically a REALLY GOOD "monster" like how the monk turns into a mystic outsider.

Just ask the DM to let you play a half-celestial paladin.

By the way, the monks outsider form is pretty much worthless. It's cool when you think about it but not very practical in actual play.

 

[ferratus]

Well, I got my first burning itch to provide negative feedback.

Detect Evil has always been a disaster for mysteries or cloak and dagger adventures. Either it completely disrupts the solving of that mystery or figuring out any clues, or the DM cloaks everyone in alignment masking spells making the ability useless. It also prevents paladins from being tempted by evil, which is a staple of the genre.

Turn Undead is also something that makes no sense. Paladins don`t hold evil at bay for other party members to attack. That`s what the cleric does. Paladins charge forward with an aura of divine glory and chop the undead demon`s head clean off! The paladin is a holy warrior. If he also wants to be a cleric (because he is the abbot of his chapter house or something) that`s what multi-classing and dual-classing is for.

Horses are another area of concern, but as long as they are an option for campaigns where wilderness exploration and open-air battle is the norm instead of city or dungeon crawling, then my concerns would vanish.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

I think it is more specific than that. I think it is a divine code and following that code grants divine favor from the deity and for the Paladin it is a Lawful Good code based on the deity's teaching. This is why I don't consider Batman, Superman, The Man with No Name etc. Paladins. If there was a knight/champion class or fighter theme for those with non-divine codes, that is more fitting to me.

It seems that you consider the "god-given supernatural powers" the important part of a Paladin.

If Superman's powers had been god-given he would seems to fit your definition.

Optimus Prime (the G1&2 version at least) fits your definition, especially since the holy relic that gives him his divine blessings sits in his chest.

Kamen Rider Kuuga gets his powers from an ancient holy relic and is driven to fight ancient "demons" by his sense of Justice. Would he count by your definition?