Paladin. Disappointing

[Insight]

As an Encounter Power, I could choose to do an extra d10 damage. Also, any time I critted, I could add an extra d6 to damage.

... and slows the target for 1 turn (no save).

 

[ppaladin123]

I really like the new paladin overall but I agree they need to do something about the divine challenge. Maybe they could set some sort of time limit? In other words, you must enter melee with the target within X number of rounds or the challenge ends. I imagine the paladin saying something like, "Knave! Face my blade or suffer the wrath of St. Cuthbert!" and then charging toward the enemy. Going and hiding in the corner doesn't fit the flavor of the class.

The mechanics of the power seem fine really though...they could just rename it "catch me if you can" and it would make a fine racial power for a tiefling or the cleric of a god of trickery.

 

[Incenjucar]

I don't see a reason for it to last for longer or shorter than "the encounter"

 

[ppaladin123]

I don't see a reason for it to last for longer or shorter than "the encounter"

Well, in the games over the last few days the paladins have apparently sometimes just gone and sat in another room and left the monster to either attack allies and take damage or sit there and take damage (of course the paladin could probably be doing something more useful like actively attacking). I think people have trouble with that working given the name "divine challenge," i.e. it doesn't seem to fit the flavor of the power.

If he runs away, at some point you'd figure the paladin would no longer be part of the "encounter," and thus the power would end. They could do that by making sure the paladin is still attacking things (or the mark specifically) or that he is within a certain distance. I'm not sure....maybe just think of it as a magical aura and give a fixed radius within which it works?

 

[Piratecat]

You know what happens when you're thread-banned, ignore it, and continue to post insultingly? You get suspended.

Meanwhile, Darth, you're not blameless in this also. If someone insults you, do not respond in kind. Report the post, and let the mods deal with it. Insulting someone back only worsens the problem.

If this is unclear for anyone, feel free to email me. Otherwise, carry on with the thread.

 

[Voss]

Well, in the games over the last few days the paladins have apparently sometimes just gone and sat in another room and left the monster to either attack allies and take damage or sit there and take damage (of course the paladin could probably be doing something more useful like actively attacking). I think people have trouble with that working given the name "divine challenge," i.e. it doesn't seem to fit the flavor of the power.

If he runs away, at some point you'd figure the paladin would no longer be part of the "encounter," and thus the power would end. They could do that by making sure the paladin is still attacking things (or the mark specifically) or that he is within a certain distance. I'm not sure....maybe just think of it as a magical aura and give a fixed radius within which it works?

Well, you don't need to run away, or even leave the room, you can move across the battlefield to some place that particular enemy can't attack you. Flavor wise, it seems wrong, but rules wise, there isn't much reason not to take advantage of it.

 

[ppaladin123]

Well, you don't need to run away, or even leave the room, you can move across the battlefield to some place that particular enemy can't attack you. Flavor wise, it seems wrong, but rules wise, there isn't much reason not to take advantage of it.

I agree...that's why I thought they might want to make it work only within a particular radius around the paladin. Mechanically though it is a cool power...just not very "paladin-esque" in its current incarnation.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

So this is an odd question, but...

Has anyone figured out from the Halfling Paladin what exactly 'short' does in the new edition?

 

[Kraydak]

*snark mode on*

So, a paladin's greatest offense is when he isn't getting attacked. A paladin's defenses are (roughly) comparable to non-defenders against marked foes (-2 to hit). Think, what other advantage do defenders get? Extra healing surges! Paladins do striker like damage by debuffing multiple foes at once, and fulfill the defender role through turning *other* party members into defenders by buffing their defences and then giving them extra healing surges with lay-on-hands! It's brilliant!

*snark mode off*

I'm really not seeing any way to fix the thematic issue here. Unless the paladin class has strong abilities to restrict their opponent's movement later on in the class (and I'm guessing not as that seems to be the fighter's shtick), forcing the paladin to move towards/attack/generically do threatening things to an opponent restricts him to marking a single foe (if the enemies are mobile and don't stay clumped, and they have little reason to stay clumped). It also doesn't fix the potential work-around of a paladin shooting marked foes to maintain the mark (it's an attack!). As an added bonus for such a work-around, no shooting into melee penalty, and friendlies don't provide cover. *If* (conflicting reports) this issue only just arose, I'm predicting a nerfed-into-uselessness paladin, or coward-paladin tactics being just one of those 4e things.

 

[ppaladin123]

*snark mode on*

So, a paladin's greatest offense is when he isn't getting attacked. A paladin's defenses are (roughly) comparable to non-defenders against marked foes (-2 to hit). Think, what other advantage do defenders get? Extra healing surges! Paladins do striker like damage by debuffing multiple foes at once, and fulfill the defender role through turning *other* party members into defenders by buffing their defences and then giving them extra healing surges with lay-on-hands! It's brilliant!

*snark mode off*

I'm really not seeing any way to fix the thematic issue here. Unless the paladin class has strong abilities to restrict their opponent's movement later on in the class (and I'm guessing not as that seems to be the fighter's shtick), forcing the paladin to move towards/attack/generically do threatening things to an opponent restricts him to marking a single foe (if the enemies are mobile and don't stay clumped, and they have little reason to stay clumped). It also doesn't fix the potential work-around of a paladin shooting marked foes to maintain the mark (it's an attack!). As an added bonus for such a work-around, no shooting into melee penalty, and friendlies don't provide cover. *If* (conflicting reports) this issue only just arose, I'm predicting a nerfed-into-uselessness paladin, or coward-paladin tactics being just one of those 4e things.

Gee I hope not...the paladin got short shrift in 3e...I'd hate to see it nerfed to hell or turned into cheesy mccheese in 4e. Anyway some of the smites in the old design and development article seemed to restrict enemy movement so we'll see

Anyway, why can't this be an aura of effect? The paladin marks somebody and then makes sure that the people he wants to protect are within his aura...."if you hurt my friends (within my aura), my god will hurt you." This lets the paladin be a defender (that's his role right?) and prevents him from running off somewhere.