D&D 5E Paladin oath. What constitutes willingly breaking your oath/code?

[TaranTheWanderer]

Read up where the term Gesh (which is now a D&D spell) came from. Read up on the Irish hero Cuhulain. These are how I interpret Paladin Oaths. If you break them, either willingly or unwittingly, there is a repercussion. The repercussions might not be as fatal as the Legends it was built on, but I would have a discussion with the player about how this might affect the character. The repercussions could be mechanical or played out completely through rp. I usually make this clear when a player chooses to play a Paladin.

Edit: Think of why a druid can't wear metal armour: because they made an Oath. It's totally an rp thing. Many DMs don't allow Druids to wear metal armour because of Druid Fluff. Paladin's Oath should have the same weight.

 

[Maxperson]

Willingly breaking you oath means that you want to break it. If you are forced to beak it through physical or mental coercion, by definition you cannot be willing.

 

[Maxperson]

The oaths are designed to be impossible: You either fall or die trying to uphold them.

That is the narrative through line of the paladin character arch. What makes a paladin a paladin.

This is what is known a a False Dichotomy, and is by RAW, wrong. There is the third option that according to RAW, allows the paladin to break their oath unwillingly and merely seek absolution. In fact, if the break was unwilling, the paladin literally cannot fall by RAW. Even if no absolution is sought.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't believe that being reluctant or taking the least bad of a set of bad options counts as "unwilling".

Again, this is a form of victim blaming. You are literally arguing that if a woman is being forced under threat to take the least bad of a set of bad options, she is being a willing participant. That's just flat out wrong.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[S'mon]

The PHB sidebar on Breaking Your Oath states that paladins are fallible and can fail to live up to their oaths, but that only a willing and unrepentant failure can cause them to violate their oath to the degree that they fall from paladinhood.

Yes, but they still broke it.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, but they still broke it.

Right, but there can be no fall if they were not willing.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yes, but they still broke it.

Right, but this thread is about what constitutes willingly breaking your oath. So my presumption was that we were discussing the type of violation that will cause paladins to fall outright (provided they are unremorseful). As opposed to the kind that just requires them to go to confession.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Once again, I'd rule there'd be some repercussion, otherwise why have an Oath. Even small rp repercussions: crippling guilt, self-loathing etc... that could affect how they interact with other PCs and NPCs. Remember that these aren't piddly little promises, these are beliefs that rule and advise their actions in all facets of life and are so ingrained that give them supernatural powers. They shouldn't break them lightly and even an accidental misstep should make them reconsider their actions. Make sure you discuss with your player how to play these out. I also have the same discussions with players who choose to play clerics, druids and warlocks.

At least, when I DM, those are my expectations and I let the players know in advance.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Id say any violation unless you have no choice. But no choice does not include being in a no win situation. However as referee I would try to avoid putting them in that kind of situation as best I can unless there is some very good reason. Cowardice is no excuse though. However 5e and earlier editions vary on what a Paladin is exactly so that will color responses. In my game they are still Lawful only and the classic knight of goodness. The only player who plays Paladins only makes them worship Heironeous from Greyhawk...even if we are playing in FR. So they are hard core chivalrous types with a steadfast code of honor that is not conducive to long living.