Hypersmurf said:
Agreed
Hypersmurf said:
No, if the mount is successful, the mount succeeds.
Not agreed, it stats the rider and mount share saves, it the rider is mounted and the mount avoids say a fireball blast by saving so to does its rider, as long as the rider stays mounted. This works with some effects and not other. Evasion from area spells it does, such as fireball, cone of cold, and such.
Some times I think (MO)people see rules in a diffrent way then most. if a fireball covers an area with heat fire blast, to avoid the effects of this you must leave the threatened area. If the Mount saves, it has leaped out of the threatened area, to avoid damage, if he fails, he made it to the far sides of the threatened area, and thus takes half damage. Clearly you can interpid the rules anyway you see fit for your campaign, but as I see it. Leap is for area, and twist is for close combat.
EVASION AND IMPROVED EVASION
These extraordinary abilities allow the target of an area attack to
leap or twist out of the way. Rogues and monks have evasion and improved evasion as class features, but certain other creatures have these abilities, too.
If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save.
As with a Reflex save for any creature,
a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.
Rogues and monks cannot use evasion in medium or heavy armor. Some creatures with the evasion ability as an innate quality do not have this limitation.
Improved evasion is like evasion, except that even on a failed saving throw the character takes only half damage.
Hypersmurf said:
So why does the rider not apply the mount's Dodge bonuses to his AC?.
Dodge bonus only applies to designated opponent. Dodge is a Personal feat, not save. If the attacker were attacking the mount, the mount would get the use of its feat dodge, once the mount has choosen the attacker, the mount then tries to dodge the incoming blows. This is the same for the rider, he may use his dodge bounus, when he has designated an opponent to aviod, or dodge in combat.
Hypersmurf said:
The rider is not an attended item. He's a creature. He rolls his own saving throws, and if he fails, he suffers the consequences..
I agree, however mounted it stats they share saves.
Hypersmurf said:
You don't leave your own square when you make a successful Reflex Save (or Evasion). A rider retains all his Dex and Dodge bonuses to AC while riding, so he is not so restricted that he cannot make a saving throw (or Evasion) without jumping off his horse..
The way I interpid the rules, you might have to leave your square, if the entire square is threatened, in such case as a fireball, how else is one to aviod the effects. It stats that: a character must have room to move in order to evade.
Hypersmurf said:
It's perfectly possible for the mount to take no damage from a Fireball (due to Improved Evasion), while the rider takes full damage; it's also possible for the mount to take half damage (failed save with Improved Evasion) or full damage (failed save for a normal horse) while the rider takes half damage or no damage at all.
All while staying in the saddle.
-Hyp.
I understand that some people see the rules diffrently than others. There is nothing wrong with this. I think some people like to shape the rules to help their pc's. If it improves role-play, I am all for it. I know some times the rules do not fully explain every situation. Talk it out with the players and GM at the table. I believe that a person can see what the intended rules a made to do. Rules are not the law, they are a guideline. If you fallow every rule for its face value, and not understand what the rule was intended to do, you can mis-interpid, the logic behind it. Fully try and understant what the rule was meant to accomplish.
The game is about having fun, and telling stories with friends. I have many hoserules, and some changes to rules I don't like, So I am far from the innocent person when it comes to the rules. If something does not work in your campaign, make it work or fix it so it does. The important thing is fareness, and fun.
The statments above were directed at nobody in particular, they are what they are Statments.
This is how we do it at our game table, before or after the game. We talk about the rules and what we think they mean to do. Then we agree on how we are going to play it. Done!
I say, "Not all rules are broken", my players say, "and some cannot be fixed!"
