Paladinbot

[italianranma]

This isn't a rules question persay, but I was wondering if there are a lot of DMs out there who have trouble with Paladins detecting evil and then smiting on site? I seem to get that vibe from reading the house rules section...I've never seen that at any of the tables I've sat at, so I'm just wondering...

 

[Silveras]

I have noted such observations myself, but I chalk them up to errors on the DM's part.

In a town or city, some proportion of the population is going to be "evil". These are the "kick the dog" people, or the "thumb on the scale" dishonest merchant types of evil. Something like 1/3 of the population will fit this category, and will be leaving little "dim" fading auras everywhere they go. The ones that are standing still within the area of effect will radiate "Faint" auras. The few evil clerics in town will have left "Faint" auras fading behind them. And so on.

In the dungeon, many draw pencil lines for walls. 1 foot of stone blocks the effect; likewise, a thin sheet of lead or three feet of wood/dirt. Architecturally sound dungeons are going to have walls that meet those requirements, most of the time.

Also, most such abuses tend to happen when the DM forgets to make the Paladin take 2-3 rounds to finish reading the auras.

Plus, some powerful evil creatures will stun the scanner. A couple of can make a Paladin reluctant to use the ability all the time.

And, of course, there are rules of conduct. I maintain that a society with access to such magic will create limits on its use. Just as today investigators are required to show a reason why they should be allowed to search someone's home, or tap their telephone, a society with access to such magic would create rules about the proper use.

Paladins are, in some campaigns, the law. Still, in general, there would be social limits. Knowing that the merchant is inclined to cheat his customers does not prove he has. He may never have; he may have been too afraid of being caught. The ability to detect evil might help you know to keep an eye on the merchant, but by itself it would not be evidence of any wrongdoing.

 

[Piratecat]

Not for long. They usually do it two or three times... and then they're warriors who used to detect evil and smite on sight.

 

[dcollins]

This isn't a rules question persay, but I was wondering if there are a lot of DMs out there who have trouble with Paladins detecting evil and then smiting on site? I seem to get that vibe from reading the house rules section...I've never seen that at any of the tables I've sat at, so I'm just wondering...

I haven't personally had such a problem. My last player's Paladin would detect evil occasionally in a village, and of course I'd throw in a few simply mean old men or women who registered faintly evil. He got the idea, that this wasn't the villain he was looking for, and kept on moving. If had resorted to out-of-the-blue violence, law authorities would show up to capture him and you'd have the start of a holy war, most likely -- but that would be some utterly different players than I have to not comprehend that.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

What others have said. Of course, when I DM, I'm quite tempted to toss an 18th* level womanizing, abusive, amoral fighter into the bar.

"Moderate Evil!!! I charge and smite him."
"Very good, he takes 42 points of damage. He doesn't bother to sit up. He just quickdraws his flail, power attacks for 10..."

Becoming an ex-paladin or a righteous man on the way to a just execution isn't the only risk a paladinbot faces. Biting off more than he can chew is a big problem too.

*Unless a character is undead, a demon, or a cleric of an evil god, etc, he can get well into epic levels before radiating anything other than moderate evil.

 

[MerakSpielman]

They've pretty much covered it. It all depends on how common evil alignments are in your game. Also, it depends on the public reputation of paladins. If a paladin is widely acknowledged as a law unto themselves, the valient, unquestionable defender of the masses, they're not likely to be bothered. If this is an area where paladins aren't seen that often, or if they're not considered above the law, a paladinbot could run into problems. Smite the evil person, get arrested by the Lawful Good guards for cold-blooded murder. "But he wouldn't have detected as evil if he didn't deserve to be smitten, er, smited, um, I mean, killed!" "Yeah, yeah, we get that all the time. If you had evidence on him you shoulda called the guards. Tell it to the judge."

Also, what if the paladin detects evil in, say, the local sheriff, or baron, or the king's most trusted advisor, or the king himself? What if the paladin momentarily detects evil in the high priest of the temple he follows, but then it "goes away?" Did he just bypass an Amulet of Nondetection? Was it a fluke?

Detect evil is a great radar for dungeon crawls. Despite appearances, it's not all that great in urban areas or for murder mysteries.

Isn't it interesting, in the real-life mystery genre, how often it is that the murdered individual was scum and had it coming? And the detective still goes after the person who killed him and makes the arrest becuase "murder is wrong?" Keep the Law in mind, Mr. Paladin! Might doesn't make right!

 

[shilsen]

Not for long. They usually do it two or three times... and then they're warriors who used to detect evil and smite on sight.

What he said.

From my experience of postings on these boards, the paladinbot only really occurs when you have a DM who misunderstands the rules or house rules the detect evil ability to pick up "supernatural" evil, whether that be creatures with the Evil descriptor or some variant thereof. Using the rules as written literally makes it impossible for a paladin to do the "detect and smite" approach without royally screwing himself. For example, by the rules, a NE 11th lvl commoner and a 3rd lvl LN cleric of an evil deity both detect as moderately evil, while a standard MM ghoul and a CE 10th lvl mass murdering Ftr will both detect as faintly evil. Detect evil is very ambiguous.

 

[rangerjohn]

Probably, why most people don't play paladins. You people are taliking about taking away the paladin's chief offensive ability. Do you simarly crack down on a barbarians rage or a fighters feats?

 

[borc killer]

Probably, why most people don't play paladins. You people are taliking about taking away the paladin's chief offensive ability. Do you simarly crack down on a barbarians rage or a fighters feats?

So you think that a Paladin should be allowed to walk into a town and kill 1/4 of the population without just cause? When he walks over and kills the towns only black smith and miller I think the villagers might be just a little pissed off… not to mention the lord of the area. That certainly would not be for the grater good of the town and it certainly would not be lawful. This is the slippery slop that paladins have to watch out for… and THAT is what makes them fun to play.

Borc Killer

 

[Len]

Probably, why most people don't play paladins. You people are taliking about taking away the paladin's chief offensive ability. Do you simarly crack down on a barbarians rage or a fighters feats?

(Maybe you're kidding, but...) I don't see anyone talking about "taking away" detect evil. Are you suggesting taking away the "lawful" part of the paladin's code of conduct? And yes, I would expect similar treatment for a barbarian or fighter who uses his abilities against random commoners.