D&D 5E Paladins and Find Mount, what does the paladin get over other riders, if anything?

[Inconnunom]

Seems to me that means it would also get hit by hostile spells that only target you.

Lol. If you really want to kill your mount off I guess.

"While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed."

But invisibility focused on you could extend to your mount. Or fly, etc.

 

[gyor]

The main mechanical point of the find steed spell is mobility, everything else is either gravvy or fluff/flavour.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

So basically it is both independent/intelligent and controlled. It sounds to me like it acts on your turn but is considered independent in terms of action options.

This is how I run it because it is what it *should* do. However, the Sage seems to be telling us that the intention is that it cannot act independently.

Which is, of course a debuff, since even a regular warhorse can be controlled OR independent as you choose. (My players generally control it when they want to get into melee, and then let them act independently at that point, since a warhorse is smart enough to kick nearby hostiles.)

I'm not sure why Jeremy wants to interpret the spell as taking away options that a regular horse has.

 

[Scorpio616]

I'm not sure why Jeremy wants to interpret the spell as taking away options that a regular horse has.

Because folks are assuming that an independant warhorse will pursue foes or go where the rider wants it to. In my game, if someone lets their warhorse act independently, it will attack those who have already harmed it, intimidate those who come near it, but will otherwise avoid conflict. Mount trained to be willing to deal with combat does not equal attack dog!

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Because folks are assuming that an independant warhorse will pursue foes or go where the rider wants it to. In my game, if someone lets their warhorse act independently, it will attack those who have already harmed it, intimidate those who come near it, but will otherwise avoid conflict. Mount trained to be willing to deal with combat does not equal attack dog!

I agree with your interpretation. I have independent war mounts act based on their instincts. This generally means that if they or their rider are being attacked in melee, they will strike out at whoever makes the most sense to them to strike out. Since they are animals, it's sometimes best to let the dice decide who that will be. It's still usually worth it once you get into melee to let your steed do that, because them attacking someone is better than attacking no one.

What I don't have independent unintelligent steeds do is go where you want them to or attack who you want them to. I allow their riders to make an Animal Handling check to attempt to give them general directions (and don't charge them an action for that), but it might not work, or be less precise then you intended it. If the rider wants total control, the mount needs to stop fighting and just let the rider control everything he does.

Even if you don't allow the sort of Animal Handling I do, the rider still has a choice--use the horse as a motorcycle or as a blind hoof attack machine. Mr. Crawford is interpreting a spell that says:

"Your steed serves you as a mount, both in combat and out, and you have an instinctive bond with it that allows you to fight as a seamless unit."

...as meaning that your Int 6 horse that you can communicate with not only doesn't gain the ability to follow your orders while fighting independently, but it loses the independent blind hoof machine attack option entirely. As opposed to a horse you bought at the stable, this one only has the motorcycle option.

So I say, really?

Part of me wonders if someone forgot that the normal mount rules allow an unintelligent mount to act independently or controlled, at the rider's option.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Looking over the vaugely worded Find Mount spell, I can't help but ponder just what, if anything a mounted paladin gets over a person normally riding a typical warhorse. How do folks around here treat the Spell / Paladin mount. Has any of the wotc crew commented on this spell?

IMG, I read the spell text as implying two things:

1.) The mount acts on the same initiative count as the paladin ("fight as a seamless unit"); and yet
2.) The mount acts as an independent, intelligent creature, so it is unrestricted in the actions it can take.

Normally you would have to choose between #1 and #2 because only dumb beasts act on your initiative, and they are restricted to Dash/Disengage/Dodge per PHB rules. So the paladin essentially gets a warhorse who can attack if he wants it to, and yet the paladin doesn't have to Ready his action to attack "whenever my warhorse next approaches an enemy." Best of both worlds.

Also, if you happen to have a paladin/warlock in your game (for whatever reason), Find Steed lets you get double mileage out of Armor of Agathys, and quadruple mileage if you Blade Ward too. Can work for bardlocks too, once they steal Wish for Find Steed access.

 

[Inconnunom]

IMG, I read the spell text as implying two things:

1.) The mount acts on the same initiative count as the paladin ("fight as a seamless unit"); and yet
2.) The mount acts as an independent, intelligent creature, so it is unrestricted in the actions it can take.

Normally you would have to choose between #1 and #2 because only dumb beasts act on your initiative, and they are restricted to Dash/Disengage/Dodge per PHB rules. So the paladin essentially gets a warhorse who can attack if he wants it to, and yet the paladin doesn't have to Ready his action to attack "whenever my warhorse next approaches an enemy." Best of both worlds.

Also, if you happen to have a paladin/warlock in your game (for whatever reason), Find Steed lets you get double mileage out of Armor of Agathys, and quadruple mileage if you Blade Ward too. Can work for bardlocks too, once they steal Wish for Find Steed access.

This is how I read both the spell and Jeremy's interpretation.

 

[Blue]

Whoot, answers finally.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/10/06/find-steed-spell-intelligence/

I'm sorry, that directly contradicts the PHB. PHB is very specific in Find Steed to give then an Int of 6 (and understanding a language), and under Mounts talks about what an intelligent mount can do. This will require an errata to the PHB to make function this way.

And frankly, at 6th (and even with my paladin aura) my Find Steed warhorse w/ barding dies almost every combat to AoE spells. It doesn't need a nerf.

 

[Inconnunom]

I'm sorry, that directly contradicts the PHB. PHB is very specific in Find Steed to give then an Int of 6 (and understanding a language), and under Mounts talks about what an intelligent mount can do. This will require an errata to the PHB to make function this way.

And frankly, at 6th (and even with my paladin aura) my Find Steed warhorse w/ barding dies almost every combat to AoE spells. It doesn't need a nerf.

The way I read it (and has been lightly discussed in the forum) they are actually more powerful than standard mounts. They are intelligent/independant but due to their bond they act as an extension of the paladin and share their turns. This means the character controls both on the same turn rather than the case for find familiar in which the familiar and caster might not be synced quite right at times.