Paladins and the Mentally Instable People that Play Them

[+5 Keyboard!]

I have a player that I've known for about 9 years. He's played in my games on 3 different long-running occasions. The last (the third) just came to an end after a two year run. Let's call him Larry.


Larry always plays a paladin because he relates best to them. In a very disturbing way. In real life he thinks of himself as a paladin. He is a minister and has a Christian talk radio show. That's not too crazy, right?

OK. He also has himself his own little cult founded in a strange D&D/Christian quasi-religion. He has sometimes talked about going out patrolling the streets looking for satanic cultists. During his second run with me in my game, he became convinced that one of my other players was evil; specifically, he had brought something evil back with him from the desert during the Gulf War. He began drawing crosses with olive oil on my front door to ward away this other player's evil. (I didn't find out about the crosses for weeks later after dust had collected on it)

Anyway, he quit that time because he couldn't play with the other guy due to his evil. The most recent time he quit was just 2 days ago. This time it was a more straight forward so-and-so-got-my-character-killed-and-I-can't-play-with-him-anymore-because-he's-too-chaotic and leave all pissed of kind of thing.

Before you say, "Well, why did you invite him back twice?" Let me just say that my rule of not discussing religion at my game table has kept his crazy religious ideas and stories out of my game and thus not a problem in the past and he's a pretty likable guy otherwise. I also believe that people change. And after a year or two of not gaming with a guy I tend to be more forgiving and open to gaming with that person again.

Now, this is not an anti-religion thread. I'm an active Christian and don't wish to discuss that particular aspect of my life here on these boards (for or against). What I'm getting at after describing my (former) player in detail is this:

Do other players/DMs have similar problems with people that play Paladins? Having had only this guy ever really play a paladin in the games I've run since 1982, I don't have a lot of exposure to other players playing one. Does it attract a certain kind of player that's a little unstable, needs to dominate the group, feels that the game needs to be centered around him/her and his/her quests?

I would LOVE to have a player actually play a decent paladin that isn't the Id of a lunatic for a change :|.

 

[Raloc]

Sounds like this person's problem has little do to with D&D and everything to do with being a religious zealot.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

You know, I honestly can't remember having the internet-touted Lawful Stupid Paladin in any of my games. Seriously.

Most of the more disruptive players I've encountered turn their nose up at the notion of having to be LG. Obnoxious thieves? Oh yeah. The creepy dude playing a hot elf chick? Naturally. The character using "CN" as an excuse to be "CE"? Too many times. But an obnoxious LS Pally? Nope.

 

[Endur]

Does it attract a certain kind of player that's a little unstable, needs to dominate the group, feels that the game needs to be centered around him/her and his/her quests?

Does the Paladin class attrack players who are:

unstable? No.
needs to dominate the group? No.
feels that the game should be centered around the character's quests? Yes.

The paladin class is designed to have the game centered around the character's quests. Quests for the special mount, quests for atonement, quests for a holy sword, quests for land, lady, liege, and god. Quests are the meat and drink of the paladin class.

That is why there was a chr 17 mininum to play a Paladin (in AD&D). Only someone who was obviously the leader of the group would get to play the Paladin, because their quest-nature, in a group game, would eventually lead to the game being focused on their quests (unless the GM was very good).

 

[Teflon Billy]

Do other players/DMs have similar problems with people that play Paladins? Having had only this guy ever really play a paladin in the games I've run since 1982, I don't have a lot of exposure to other players playing one...

Ive only had a similar experience once, and it was a doozy

We had a guy who not only always played a Paladin (and one so rigid as to make Miko Miyazaki look like slacker), but who thought that his "Calling" spilled over into real life.

So, when beers were consumed at the table, we were treated to a rousing chorus of Drink not strong drink thou, nor thy sons with thee, lest ye die and be denied the kingdom of heaven...

Explaining to the guy that the in-game Gods were not, you know, Jehovah, seemed to take root about as well as the suggestion that our characters were not ourselves.

I don't think the guy's Christian leanings had much to do with it actually...it was more his inability to recognize that line between "Real" and "Make beleive" since we've had actual Ministers play, and not had a whiff of such behaviour.

Anyaway, he didn't last long (he was asked to leave after the third instance of his character dying and him rolling up basically the same character again), so it's hardly a disaster story.

Just damn peculiar.

 

[Clueless]

Um... the problems you're seeing there are all *him* not the paladin concept. Paladins can be played much more... sanely.

 

[Umbran]

Do other players/DMs have similar problems with people that play Paladins?

I have played the game for decades. Multiple editions, and there's always a paladin around, and they've always been quite sane.

Which is not to say that problems don't happen. But they aren't specific to paladins, nor to player religion directly. In any group of sufficient size, you'll find some members with hangups. There's a couple million RPG plaers out there. Some of them are bound to have issues. You seem to have one. It could have been with someone who lieks rogues. Or wizards.



And, from this point forward, just to be be 100% clear - we don't want to see anyone in this thread try to lay the problem on religion. That will not be tolerated.

 

[Nightfall]

I like paladins but then I also like unholy warriors too.

I'm like of three minds about paladins.

So yeah I'm unstable.

Long live the Scarred Lands!

 

[FireLance]

My main problem with players and paladins has generally been finding players who want to play paladins.

That said, I can see how certain types of problem players might be more inclined to play paladins, in the same way that certain types of problem players might be more inclined to play rogues, or barbarians, or high-Charisma female characters, or whatever.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Now this is a paladin thread with a twist!

Larry always plays a paladin because he relates best to them. In a very disturbing way. In real life he thinks of himself as a paladin. He is a minister and has a Christian talk radio show. That's not too crazy, right?

There are some crazies on talk radio of all sorts, but I don't think it's a job requirement. Probably just the effect of having a soapbox to speak from.

OK. He also has himself his own little cult founded in a strange D&D/Christian quasi-religion. He has sometimes talked about going out patrolling the streets looking for satanic cultists. During his second run with me in my game, he became convinced that one of my other players was evil; specifically, he had brought something evil back with him from the desert during the Gulf War. He began drawing crosses with olive oil on my front door to ward away this other player's evil. (I didn't find out about the crosses for weeks later after dust had collected on it)

OK, now we're getting into some odd behavior. Definitely "out of the mainstream" kind of things here. It meshes up with some beliefs I've seen from very devout evangelical or revival movements. Not necessarily crazy, just definitely unusual for most folks. He'd probably fit in pretty well with a snake handler's church, for instance, just not necessarily in your home.

What's more disconcerting is that he's secretly taking action, which seems to indicate that he's aware his beliefs aren't mainstream (he wasn't going to *ask* you if he could ward your home against evil), but he's passionate enough to act regardless of social setting. That's pretty characteristic of a problem zealot...his beliefs in that evil, for instance, trumped your property rights to your own door at that moment.

Anyway, he quit that time because he couldn't play with the other guy due to his evil. The most recent time he quit was just 2 days ago. This time it was a more straight forward so-and-so-got-my-character-killed-and-I-can't-play-with-him-anymore-because-he's-too-chaotic and leave all pissed of kind of thing.

Before you say, "Well, why did you invite him back twice?" Let me just say that my rule of not discussing religion at my game table has kept his crazy religious ideas and stories out of my game and thus not a problem in the past and he's a pretty likable guy otherwise. I also believe that people change. And after a year or two of not gaming with a guy I tend to be more forgiving and open to gaming with that person again.

Now, this is not an anti-religion thread. I'm an active Christian and don't wish to discuss that particular aspect of my life here on these boards (for or against).

You're more forgiving than I, I guess. However, keep in mind the Geek Social Fallacies, here. If he causes problems at the table for you, he shouldn't come back to the table. Cause and effect, yos. Don't keep inviting him back to the game just because he's a decent fellow if you or your group can't be comfortable gaming with him. You can still hang out and go to movies and watch the Superbowl (aww...bears...) if you want, but don't have him at the table.

Do other players/DMs have similar problems with people that play Paladins? Having had only this guy ever really play a paladin in the games I've run since 1982, I don't have a lot of exposure to other players playing one. Does it attract a certain kind of player that's a little unstable, needs to dominate the group, feels that the game needs to be centered around him/her and his/her quests?

I would LOVE to have a player actually play a decent paladin that isn't the Id of a lunatic for a change :|.

I'll echo what's gonna be universal: it's not the game, it's the player. Paladins don't attract unbalanced egomaniacs any more than vampires attract self-pitying goth crybabies.

The guy's exhibiting classic unhealthy zealot behavior. You don't have the responsibility to stop him, but you don't have to let him continue to ruin your games. You're his friends, right? Tell him this, not Anonymous Message Board Advice Columnists.

And, again and with gusto: GEEK SOCIAL FALLACIES. Pay attention to #2, #3, and #5. Don't be an enabler!