Paladins and the Mentally Instable People that Play Them

[airwalkrr]

I played a paladin once (3e before 3.5). He began at 2nd level and died at 4th. I found the experience distasteful after his death because the DM forced several unpalatable options at that point. He was a paladin of Tyr in a game using Norse mythology and I played him as valorous, courageous to a fault, generous, and above all with a love for the thrill of combat and adventure. He tended to annoy the other party members with his piety, but he preferred to live by example and not force impractical decisions upon the other party members. When he died, the DM took me aside and explained a scenario wherein my character did not ascend to join Tyr in Nifelheim as he expected, but rather was given the option to serve Loki and return to life or remain in the void for all eternity. Obviously, he choose the void. The DM, clearly frustrated that my character would not accept the obvious railroading attempt to bring a follower of Loki into the party, tried to entice my character in other ways, but he remained steadfast. Finally, he said Loki left my character alone in the void for what seemed like 5000 years. Then a strange creature approached him and offered him a way out. I decided that after 5000 years in the void, anyone would go crazy, so my paladin did. When he followed the "way out" he was returned to life 10 minutes after the point where he had died and the DM told me to roleplay my character as Chaotic Neutral in alignment from that point. Well, having gone crazy and now being CN, my character went on a rampage, accusing the other party members of collaborating with followers of Loki and trying to tempt him. The DM, clearly realizing this was a bad idea, almost immediately restored my character to Lawful Good alignment, but informed me that he had fallen from paladinhood. Needless to say, I did not cry too hard when the paladin died for a second time several sessions later (mostly because he was now little more than a fighter with a higher than normal Charisma and Wisdom without the feats) and this time I was allowed to create a new character.

My experience with paladins as a DM is that they are usually fun to have around. They keep the other party members in line and often extol a certain sense of reason about them. The most common problem I have had is when the player chooses a paladin based solely on some idea of a power build and then throws roleplaying out the window. I have rarely encountered a player who, zealously pious in life, decides to roleplay a similar character in the game. The only minister I ever had in my games played primarily Neutral and Chaotic Neutral thieves. Very nice guy actually. Apparently, he bought into the idea that D&D was a fantasy game and your character is not necessarily you. What a novel idea!

 

[Jeff Wilder]

The next time I get pissed off because my players don't prioritize gaming as high as I do, I need to remind myself of this thread.

I've never gamed with a crazy paladin player. There's a paladin in two of three of the games I'm involved in, and in both cases the player is just about most pleasant and easygoing person at the table. I've never gamed with a guy who insisted on playing hot elf chicks. I did have one guy who insisted on playing a psychotic loner, but he was young and it was Cyberpunk.

There's only been one melt-down in my games -- at least since I was 16, in the 80s -- and I still don't know what it was really about ... guy's character was killed through some really bad luck, and he freaked out when I wouldn't let him break the feat-prerequisite rules for his new character.

I'll just keep repeating it: "I am lucky ... I game with normal people. I am lucky ... I game with normal people."

 

[Livia]

I've never seen such a paladin either.

I play paladins somewhat often myself.

My latest is in Living Greyhawk with a weekly group.

I've always surprised people, when we enter the tavern a player will go 'haha, you can't drink' and I just boggle.

Why can't a palandin drink? Is it unlawful? Is it evil? I think not. Sure, she's not going to go overboard but really. She knows she's not perfect, she's mortal and she has vices. She stands against the unjust and the forces of darkness. She's not going to be corrupted by a mug of ale with her evening meal

I don't feel that I take the focus away from the group at all.
She adventures with her friends because they're her friends. Not every quest is about her. In fact little of them are, they're usually about the people the party is helping.

I love playing her

 

[celewritor]

hmm, weird I've had a similar problem in my game with a problem player. Somewhat unbalanced mentally, ALWAYS plays a paladin (even though he was incompetent at it), very religious. I blame it on the unbalanced mind myself, probably looking for a way to be special and to have purpose. I still had to boot him for disrupting the game.

I heard he went on to be a extremely horrible DM.

Oh yea, almost forgot to mention he was the only nut to play a paladin (as opposed to all the sane people playing paladins) in my games. But then I've only had a couple players like that.

 

[Torm]

As someone who actually DID, at one point, spend a bit of time believing that I was my Paladin character, I'm going to have to come down on the side of it being a problem with the player in question, and not the game. In my case, I was 13, and I was pretty thoroughly unhappy with the realizations I was coming to about the morality of people in my life, like my parents, whom I had looked at with rose-colored glasses until recently before.

There are various things in the makeup of the Paladin class that can be very appealing to people who are a bit cracked in one way or another - the righteousness of one's actions, the black-and-white morality, the self-sacrificing nature, and so on. The same thing can be said about other classes - the Rogue, for example, offers the opportunity to indulge in immoralities forbidden in life - but generally people understand that is in fun, and I don't THINK I've ever met anyone inspired to a life of crime by playing a Rogue. The Paladin is a bit different because, while playing one can be a lot of fun, they can also represent ideals that the PLAYER longs for in the real world. While I think I do a pretty good job of drawing a line between fact and fiction, these days, and I play other classes (I just got done playing a Cleric of Thoth that would have made my Paladins cringe, to say the least ), I still aspire to be a Paladin.

I can't stand to fly
I'm not that naive
I'm just out to find
The better part of me

I'm more than a bird:I'm more than a plane
More than some pretty face beside a train
It's not easy to be me

Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I'll never see

It may sound absurd:but don't be naive
Even Heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed:but won't you conceed
Even Heroes have the right to dream
It's not easy to be me

Up, up and away:away from me
It's all right:You can all sleep sound tonight
I'm not crazy: or anything:

I can't stand to fly
I'm not that naive
Men weren't meant to ride
With clouds between their knees

I'm only a man in a silly red sheet
Digging for kryptonite on this one way street
Only a man in a funny red sheet
Looking for special things inside of me

It's not easy to be me.

- "Superman", by Five For Fighting

 

[WayneLigon]

Tyr...died... did not ascend... Loki... CN... Insane... etc
The DM, clearly realizing this was a bad idea, almost immediately restored my character to Lawful Good alignment, but informed me that he had fallen from paladinhood.

When people tell me all the reasons that RPG are not more widespread than they are, I look at GMs like this as a major reason people leave the hobby. Who knows how many more people this nut has turned off of roleplaying forever with GMing like that?

On topic: No, haven't really ever had a crazy person play a Paladin. I've seen very few people play a paladin, usually because they've been burned by poor DMs who do things like strip a paladin of his abilities after taking a drink.

+5 Keyboard!: You know him better than I, obviously, but it really sounds like Larry needs some degree of professional help. Might be a good idea to talk to his own minister.

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

Umm. . .

RELIGION was not the problem. Nothing wrong with that. The problem was the DM imported his religion into the class/game, he would/could not seperate his religious beliefes from the game. This was also something 'touchy' as in you really couldn't reason with him on it. This was not a writen house rule and the DM showed favoritism in a certain way toward them. How he wanted it played deviated quite a bit from RAW and was not in house rules. Just to clarify.

 

[Sir Elton]

I guess no one is going to disagree I'm mentally unstable huh?

Dude, if you are really unstable, go talk to a therapist.

Now, my vision of the pally is a just and merciful one. He defends the innocents: whether they are orcs, goblins, humans, whomever. My vision of a paladin is someone trying so hard to be so good that evil people can't stand to be around him! He's so squeaky clean that evil people would leave his presence. He is just an unassuming paladin who doesn't preach, but works hard to be an example of lawful goodness. Black and white doesn't exist for him, just the preservation of Life.

In short, he's trying to be a candidate for Translation.

And no, I never had anyone who was that wierded out before. I don't believe I would attract such people in my games.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

+5 Keyboard!: You know him better than I, obviously, but it really sounds like Larry needs some degree of professional help. Might be a good idea to talk to his own minister.

Heh. Well, he is the minister, is the problem with that. Sure, I could call the Christian radio station he works for and tell them Larry needs help, but I think they already know and probably think it makes for great radio

As far as everyone else's comments and 2 cents, thanks for the input. To answer one poster in particluar, 3 strikes and you're out, for me. Larry will not be back with us in the future. For the record, Larry usually did a really good job of playing a paladin. Hell, he's had years and years of playing variations of the same character class so he should be downright brilliant at it!

Also, I don't blame the Paladin class for Larry being a whack job. I think the Paladin is an awesome class, but wish I could meet someone that could do the kind of job of playing one in my games that would make my gamers actually like paladins for a change. 'Ol Larry has kind of tainted Paladins for the rest of my players.

In a side story related to Larry, I once had a player run a Monk of Rao (god of peace in Greyhawk) who had also taken the vow of poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds) and was eventually going to go the really serious route of taking vow of peace at higher levels. The player was kind of sick of watching Larry run his goofy paladins and decided to "outgood" him. And, oh what a great job he did! It was the funniest thing ever. Larry used to get so angy with that player when he always showed up at his side and tried to talk him out of acts of violence, advised against judging people and creatures too harshly, and basically acted like the little angel on his shoulder trying to convert him from Heironeous to Rao. Ahhh... good times!

 

[mmu1]

A friend of mine loves to play Paladins. Claims they're his favorite class, and so on. The only problem is, he actually chooses to ignore the way D&D portrays Paladins, and his personal idea of how one should be played usually ends up as some kind of unholy cross between an angel of death and a bad movie portrayal of a member of the Inquisition.

As a result, the Paladin is not a playable class in any games I run the he participates in.