Paladins - likes and dislikes?

[Black Omega]

Quite

I am apparently one of the three people in the world who likes the summonable mount. I won't claim it doesn't make suspension of disbelief a little weird, but there are so many oddities in D&D that another one won't hurt. Is the pokemount any weirder than druids randomly being shapeshifters, or bards singing "Make, make, make that skill check..."?

People liking the summonable mount isn't that uncommon. But the 'pokemount' people are more vocal. So far I've not seen any other routes that make the special mount ability useful without it also often being a serious liability.

Paladin's sometimes work better when the player lets them simply not notice certain things. Paladin's are useful to a group but much of the time a Cleric would be as useful and have more versitility. It does strike me as a little strange that there is a player class dedicated to good, but no base classes dedicated to evil.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Edited because I was being a jerk.

 

[Greg K]

Like the "heroic" concept.

Definitely needs to be a prestige class. Maybe with something like a Ftr5 or Knight3 prerequisite..

Actually, instead of a Prc, I would like to see Faith feats. Feats that grant certain abilities to anyone with x amount of ranks in Knowledge (religion), Wisdom 13+, Charisma 13+. Some feats might have alignment and/or deity as additional prequisites. Abilities might include: Commune with deity, lay hands, turn undead, and divine grace.

Examples:
Joan of Arc character might have feat granting Augury or Commune.
Lancelot would have lay hands (at least in the play Camelot)
A very devout religous person of good alignment might have the ability to turn undead.

 

[Nomad4life]

I like the idea of Paladins. (In my settings, they are grim, determined crusaders who fight an overall greater battle they know they can never win.) The metatheme focus for Paladin characters in my games run along the "how much are you willing to sacrifice in the name of the greater good" line.

I also never seem to tire of "fall from grace" stories involving Paladins (and I think that Paladins make the most interesting vampires.) Don't know what it is- I just can't get enough. ::Shrug::

However, I greatly dislike the awkward way some people play Paladins. And that's all I'll say about that.

 

[Conaill]

Actually, instead of a Prc, I would like to see Faith feats. Feats that grant certain abilities to anyone with x amount of ranks in Knowledge (religion), Wisdom 13+, Charisma 13+. Some feats might have alignment and/or deity as additional prequisites. Abilities might include: Commune with deity, lay hands, turn undead, and divine grace.

Eh - no reason you couldn't have both. Make them prerequisites for the Paladin PrC...

(Of course, if I had my way, I'd do away with classes in D&D altogether, and just decompose them all into abilities you can buy piecemeal. But that's a whole other can of worms... )

 

[Psion]

Like them mostly. The good conviction. Demonstrating that you can make a non-fighter that is still as useful to a group as a warrior type. The archetype it represents.

Hate the:

• Pokemount (though I didn't come up with the term, I often get credited with it. Mercule actually has the earliest instance of this quip I can find on these boards, though don't dismiss that it might have cropped up on the WotC boards first.)
• Multiclass restriction (just like a monk)
• People play or expect them to be played as lawful stupid. There is a lot more room for depth in a paladin concept than that.

 

[blargney the second]

Overall I don't like the class.

1) Smite evil should be extra dice rolled instead of a fixed bonus - the multiplication factor with criticals, charging with lances, etc makes it get out of hand really fast.
2) I'd be happier if divine grace replaced the relevant save ability with charisma, rather than stacking with it.
3) Detect evil at will is incredibly annoying because it lacks depth. I'd rather the character had to determine on their own whether an opponent is evil. {Judge, jury, executioner} is much more interesting than {spellcaster, observer, executioner}.
4) Immunity to fear would be much more interesting for RP if it were a bonus.
5) I don't like the spellcasting, but I like D&D's exponential spellcasting system less and less as time goes by.
6) The final nail in the coffin is the truly horrid code of conduct. It's modelled far more after the christian ethos than I like in my fantasy games, especially when there are so many deities in D&D.

That's about it - the rest doesn't bug me too much (especially since we ignore the multiclass penalty). This class gets an E from me.
-blarg

 

[Seeten]

I have a love/hate relationship with Paladins.
Love:

-Charisma, the stat, and any class that makes it useful has at least that
-Divine Grace, Turning, Divine Feats
-Relatively good fighter
-Smite

Hate

-Detect Evil
-Alignment Restriction(LG)
-Roleplaying restrictions for mechanical benefits, and vice versa

I think Arcana Evolved got it righter, with their "Champion of" Paladin. Champion of Good, Evil, Magic, Death, Undead, Corruption, Church, etc

Paladins as Champions of good are interesting, but why does only good have champions? There ought to be champions of everything. Also, the CoC doesnt rate as liked or disliked by me, mostly because we houserule it into reasonable interpretations, depending on god worshipped, etc.

I think the Paladin has the opportunity to be much, and right now it is mostly a missed opportunity.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Like:

• The code of conduct, because it makes the player really act the part of the holy knight.
• Smite evil, because it's a powerful swing in combat and really feels like it's doing something.
• Remove disease: it's not giving the paladin power, it's letting the paladin show compassion to others (esp. NPCs that the party cleric won't waste a spell on)
• Divine grace, as a concrete sign of divine protection.
• Sense Motive as a class skill
• Not a template, but a unique exemplar of holiness. Having paladins of tyrany, paladins of nature, and paladins of personal gain takes away from their special role in the campaign world.

Dislike:

• The summoned 3.5 mount.
• People insisting that the paladin play "lawful stupid"
• A lack of good feats for high-level paladins (9+) to take -- even though they have few feats, not having much interesting selection hurts. Most just end up taking basic combat feats.

 

[Greg K]

(Of course, if I had my way, I'd do away with classes in D&D altogether, and just decompose them all into abilities you can buy piecemeal. But that's a whole other can of worms... )

Same here