Palladium/Rifts--what's your opinion?

[Sebastian Francis]

I know, I know, it sounds like flamebait, but it isn't. Allow me to explain.

I recently purchased both Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural 2, and I have to say, I'm loving both of them. The scope and depth and general gonzo factor of Rifts blows me away, and I'm thinking of either a d20 Future/Rifts game or a straight Rifts game. Beyond the Supernatural 2 is, in my opinion, one of the better horror games I've seen. In both books I love, love, love the "old school" art. Reminds me of AD&D 1e, Gamma World 1e, etc.

The proofreading is abysmal, the writing at times annoying in its awkwardness (although at times very, very engaging as well). But I can forgive that because I love the black-and-white, durable, softcover books. Again, I'm old school. Who needs glossy paper, hardback, and full colour? Just a personal preference, of course.

Here's what I want to talk about: What's the deal with Palladium/Rifts? (Let's focus on the company and the game Rifts, and leave Palladium's other games out of it, for the sake of simplicity). It seems that every time Rifts or Palladium gets mentioned on rpg.net people freak out and there's a 20-page flamewar. Which is why I'm asking you guys for your thoughts, and not on rpg.net . On the other hand, Palladium seems to be wildly popular, with a huge fan base, and by most accounts they are a solid #3 in the RPG industry.

This seems like a paradox of sorts. Why so loved by some, so hated by others?

Also, those of you who have experience with the Rifts system (I mean the mechanics, not just the setting), please tell me this...am I mad to contemplate running straight Rifts? Or should I simply use d20 Future?

Discuss.

 

[Crothian]

I played Rifts solidly for about 10 years. Good source material, creative, bad editing, at times bad writing, rules that really get on my nerves, and the world changes from the first main book to the world books. The power level between different sourcebooks can be really extreme.

As for the company, I have never heard so many former employees speak bad abnout a company in my life. They aren't mean and nasty about, but most speak in a proffesional way about how they are really happy not to be associated with Palaldium any longer.

 

[Treebore]

RIFTS is very playable, but it does have a lot of "headaches" and will require a lot of house ruling on your part. I've been looking for my old folders for RIFTS, so I can find my house rules. If I find them I'll scan them and e-mail them to you, if you would like. I am becoming concerned that my RIFTS material burned up with my Dragon collection in a house fire I had about two years ago, so I am not very hopeful of finding them.

Of course I'm the guy who found Synnibar to be the best balanced "power gamer" game out there. So take my advice however you want.

 

[Sebastian Francis]

Of course I'm the guy who found Synnibar to be the best balanced "power gamer" game out there. So take my advice however you want.

As long as you don't start praising F.A.T.A.L. . . .

 

[TheAuldGrump]

As long as you don't start praising F.A.T.A.L. . . .

F.A.T.A.L? It's great, why it... ummm... it... ummm... No, I got nothin'...



The Auld Grump, F.A.T.A.L. the most mocked game since Spawn of Fashan... and at least SoF was funny...

 

[Turjan]

F.A.T.A.L? It's great, why it... ummm... it... ummm... No, I got nothin'...



The Auld Grump, F.A.T.A.L. the most mocked game since Spawn of Fashan... and at least SoF was funny...

These cases are not really comparable. Spawn of Fashan or World of Synnibar are only bad games; F.A.T.A.L. is an upsetting annoyance.

Regarding RIFTS, I heard that the basic game without any additional sourcebook is quite fine and many people enjoy it, but that each supplement shifted the power level upwards, so you could not really combine ideas from different books in a balanced way.

 

[Treebore]

I don't remember ever hearing of F.A.T.A.L. or any of the other so called "bad" rpg's mentioned on the Synnibar thread. The reason I say "so called" is because how much credibility can I give to people who trash Synnibar when I know how good it is, since I actually played (GMed) it, a lot?

Don't worry though, I have no intention of hunting down any of these other "bad" rpg's. I'll make due with RIFTS, Synnibar, D20 3E, Traveller, Paranoia, L5R (Legend of the 5 Rings), Castles and Crusades, GURPS, 2E D&D, Decipher's LotR, Shadowrun, and all the other "bad" rpg's I play/DM, or will whenever possible.

 

[Turjan]

I don't remember ever hearing of F.A.T.A.L. or any of the other so called "bad" rpg's mentioned on the Synnibar thread. The reason I say "so called" is because how much credibility can I give to people who trash Synnibar when I know how good it is, since I actually played (GMed) it, a lot?

Oh, it's okay. My comment was more in favour of the Synnibars and Spawn of Fashans of this world. It's really unfair to mention them in the same list together with F.A.T.A.L. If you ever feel the urge to look at that 'game', you will understand what I mean. A game built around the core idea of rape is definitely a different category.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Why so loved by some, so hated by others?

Because you can be a cybernetic ninja dragon. That says "unholy cheese" to a lot of people. I'm one of them incidentally, I just can't get worked up by it like some others can.

I'll give RIFTS this: they gave away the "big secret". I got the first RIFTS book when it came out and as I remember the reason why everything went kablooie-gonzo was supposed to be a big secret. I hate that in RPGs. Anyway, they eventually told you why all the realities slammed together, making me very happy.

 

[Felon]

RIFTS offered an unapologetically over-the-top setting, and the core book contained countless illustrations that fired up the imagination. In fact, RIFTS probably holds the distinction of being the first game where the designers realized that glorious, full-color, airbrushed eye-candy really pays off (this was a time when most RPG books were low-budget affairs that offered only pen-and-ink artwork). A lot of that appealed to folks, myself included.

Now understand, the Palladium system itself is garbage. Utter garbage. Most games that offer a cumbersome combat system do so in order to portray a higher level of realism (e.g. GURPS). Palladium is cumbersome for no reason in particular. Way too many rolls involved, for one thing: I roll to attack, you roll to defend, if I hit I roll damage, then you roll to take less damage. And characters get lots of attacks in a given round.

Technology is hideously powerful, borrowing the concept of "Mega-Damage" from the Palladium Robotech game, and taking it to an extreme. 1 point of MD = 100 points of "standard" damage (effectively 199 actually, since you are supposed to round up if you apply mega-damage to to a standard-damage creature or structure). In Robotech, mega-damage was restricted to big-ass weapons mounted on giant robots, but in RIFTS you could have a pen-light or pocket knife that does 1d4 MD. Since most characters are lucky to break 100 HP, guess what? HP mean nothing. Your armor became your hit points. The books routinely depict bare-chested characters engaging in frenzied hand-to-hand combat, but nobody every does that for reasons that should be fairly obvious.

Magic is lame and weak, copied-and-pasted directly from Palladium Fantasy. It utterly failed to scale to the power level of technology (this may have changed with supplements). This is one of those areas where "metasystems" like Palladium and GURPS fail utterly. You can't say "here's a book for magic" and expect it to be portable to any setting, be it pulp fantasy or four-color superheroes or whatever the hell you'd call RIFTS.

As has been mentioned, power levels varied way too wildly, especially within character classes. You've got everything from mundane professions like scout, scientist, or vagabond (yep, you can be a bum) all the way up to dragons, uber-powerful mind melters, and the ever-absurd glitterboys (which is not really a character class, but rather an excuse to have a 20-foot tall mech with a gun that does 3d6 x 10 MD). All level at roughly the same rate. Parties were just hodge-podges with no concept of what roles individual members should play.

I pray for a d20 version one day, but from what I understand, RIFTS still sells. Can't imagine how.