Palladium system question

[Dragonblade]

I'm not struggling with the Palladium system at all though. I find it rather simple actually. In fact, I don't think it is half as bad as what some people have let on and it is very workable/house ruleable. I just wanted to make sure my above impressions were indeed correct.

I am still ordering copies of Mekton Zeta and Plus though as well.

Indeed. Once I house ruled it, I found the Palladium system to be pretty fun and smooth. The rest of the game needs work though and there is no such thing as balance. In RIFTS you could have a party with one player playing a homeless guy alongside another player playing a demi-god.

And Mekton Zeta is pretty cool. I have never played it but I own all the books for it.

 

[Wik]

Indeed. Once I house ruled it, I found the Palladium system to be pretty fun and smooth. The rest of the game needs work though and there is no such thing as balance. In RIFTS you could have a party with one player playing a homeless guy alongside another player playing a demi-god.

And Mekton Zeta is pretty cool. I have never played it but I own all the books for it.

QFT.

I get into an ongoing argument with my girlfriend's sister, who is an avowed RIFTS fan. This girl has never played any other RPGs... but she asserts that RIFTS is better than any other RPG. Why? It's more fun, it has more options, and whatnot.

I tell her that the game has unbalanced combat rules, and that the classes are horribly unbalanced. Her response is "Well, the GM can fix all that."

Then she tells me how limited D&D is, because it only has ten or so basic classes. ("Even if you add all the books, there's only, like, thirty classes!")

It's an aneurysm, everytime I get into this argument.

***

The unbalance between characters in RIFTS is well known, even if you just use the core book. I once played a game where we had a vagabond (an unskilled wanderer), a Wilderness Scout with uber physical skills, and a Glitter Boy (super mech boy!). Basically, the Wildnerness Scout got the group around, and the Glitter Boy killed anything that got in the way. And the Vagabond... he, uh.... I'm sure he did something. Cooked meals, did some laundry, stuff like that.

There are even classes that are very similar, with one having an obvious edge over the other. This can be seen in the "Rogue Scholar" and the "Rogue Scientist" classes - one is obviously just an improved version over the other. Really, the only thing that seperates the two is fluff - and when fluff and background are sort of built into the class, it can get kind of limiting.

***

Luckily, Robotech is much better than RIFTS in terms of class balance, because each character has access to each type of Mech. And mechs are the big part of the game. Plus, the game is much more balanced in terms of damage codes vs. M.D.C.

Just... don't use other rule books in your ROBOTECH game. It'll destroy things, fast.

 

[Krensky]

Indeed. Once I house ruled it, I found the Palladium system to be pretty fun and smooth. The rest of the game needs work though and there is no such thing as balance. In RIFTS you could have a party with one player playing a homeless guy alongside another player playing a demi-god.

And Mekton Zeta is pretty cool. I have never played it but I own all the books for it.

One of the advantages Mekton Z has for Macross, or I suppose Robotech, is that Macross (along with Gundam and a few other series) was of the shows the game was written to do. Player character wise, you can have party made of pilots, mechanics, and idol singers. (The last is important in Macross, although I understand it's not in Robotech after the Macross saga). Things can, like any mech game, get hinky if your party includes only small number of pilots and a large number of other types, but the books address that somewhat, and the first Jovian Chronicles book (for Mekton II) discusses it as well.

One of the other pluses to Mekton Z is that the game is designed for mecha anime action, so it's very capable of emulating the Itano Circus, where from what I've seen Palladium doesn't do this all that well. I have never played it, so I will admit this is hearsay and based on explainations of rules.

The downside to Mekton Z is the same it shares with Cyberpunk: REF is way to valuable. There are numerous solutions to address this, how well they do it is a personnl choice question, but one of the better ones is to replace Interlock with Fuzion. If you're interested, we can fork the topic.

As for the other Mekton books, my favorite is probably Starblade Battalion Mekton, which was the future of Cyberpunk until v3 came out.

 

[daddystabz]

How would you all handle playing Robotech with minis and using squares on the same scales as Wizards of the Coast miniatures, tiles, and battle mats? How would it be different in Battloid mode vs, Guardian vs. Fighter in terms of scale to use? I want to start my own game using minis but am not sure what kind of a movement scale to use.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Krensky]

How would you all handle playing Robotech with minis and using squares on the same scales as Wizards of the Coast miniatures, tiles, and battle mats? How would it be different in Battloid mode vs, Guardian vs. Fighter in terms of scale to use? I want to start my own game using minis but am not sure what kind of a movement scale to use.

Thanks in advance!

Um... It wouldn't work well at all.

The VF-1S Valkyrie (ie. Skull One) variable fighter in battroid mode is 12.68 meters tall (a hair over 41 feet, 7 inches) tall, which puts it in the Gargantuan category, at taking up a 4 by 4 square and has a running speed of 160 kph (just under 99.5 mph). In guardian mode it's at least ten 5' squares on a side and can fly at 500 kph (310.6 mph). In fighter mode it's also 10 squares on a side and is supersonic.

Zentradi kit is harder, basic you need to decide if the Valkyrie is sized to match the Zentradi mecha or the Zentradi. You will continuity problems with the show either way. If the Zentradi and Valkyrie's are the same size, that makes them 41 feet tall. This more or less jives with some of the visuals in the show and some of the stuff I vaugely remeber in the first Robotech novel. Zentradi pods would be much larger then the Valkyrie. The official numbers for the mecha, however, indicate that the Zentradi pods and the UN Spacy Valkyries and Destroids are about the same size, and that the Zentradi themselves are about 5 times the size of a human, making the average somewhere in the 8 meter range, about the same as a Titan in 3.5, with a 3 square base.

Since you're using Robotech, the VR-052F M.O.S.P.E.A.D.A and the other VR series motorcycles are probably doable on a 5' = 1" grid. The Legioss and TREAD fighters (Alpha and Beta in Robotech) are smaller then the Valkryie, but not by enough to make them fit on the grid. Most Inbit are on the scale of the larger giants in D&D.

Generally though, putting giant robots on a D&D sized grid will not work.

 

[daddystabz]

It can work if you use different scaling. Just look at how Star Wars Saga Edition handles it with ground combat in character scale and ship combat in starship scale. If you use different scaling you can make it happen. I just have not decided what kind of scaling would work best for Robotech.

 

[Sammael]

Some skills are tied to a d100. Other skills aren't rolled for at all but, rather, work to modify attributes. Still others are governed by their own weird-o subsystems.

Yup. Palladium skills are a bit like a combo of AD&D non-weapon proficiencies and 3.x feats.

My favorite is how almost all physical skills increase your attribute and give you additional HTH attacks. I had a Temporal Raider once with Str 50+ thanks to physical skills and insane luck at rolling for stats.

Oh yeah, that's another wonkiness: when rolling stats, if you roll within 5% of the maximum result, you get to roll another die and add it to the total. Not sure if this was my GM's interpretation or an actual rule, but he ruled that you kept adding more dice as long as you continued rolling 6s.

 

[Krensky]

It can work if you use different scaling. Just look at how Star Wars Saga Edition handles it with ground combat in character scale and ship combat in starship scale. If you use different scaling you can make it happen. I just have not decided what kind of scaling would work best for Robotech.

50 to 1 works. 250' squares for the mecha, 5' squares for people.

 

[Dragonblade]

I never used minis with the Palladium system. Honestly, I prefer it as a more narrative mini-less system, but I suppose it could work with minis if your scale is high enough. But you are going to be making a lot of houserules. I have seen threads at RPG.net where others have used SW Saga as the foundation for making a Robotech RPG. I would think using those rules or going with Mekton Z altogether would be a better fit for you than trying to work with the Palladium system.

As an off topic aside, despite my mixed feelings about Palladium, I'll never support Harmony Gold because of their ridiculous and outrageous claim to the Macross trademark in North America. They are the reason that fantastic anime like Macross Zero and Macross Frontier will never be released in the US and we get mediocre offerings like Shadow Chronicles.

Even though I would love to see a live action Macross flick, I hope no Robotech movie is ever made because Harmony Gold doesn't deserve dime one. Its a shame Big West and Kawamori don't have the money to challenge Harmony Gold in US court.

 

[daddystabz]

That wonkiness you described is actually an incorrect interpretation of the rule. You roll 3d6 for your stat. If your total is 16 or above you get to roll 1d6 more and add its result to your total. If the 1d6 comes up a 6, you get to roll it ONE more time and add it to your result. If you rolled a 6 the second time you do NOT get to roll again. 2 times is the limit.