Paragon Path Multiclassing

[ShadowyFigure]

Multi Classing

With the following rules I hope to fix the following problems that have been recognised.

1.Multiclassing in Paragon has a steep cost (4 FEATS!)
2.Multiclassing in Paragon Paths cripples your character instead of making it more versatile and able in another role.
3.The Multiclassing Feats are unclear and don't really balance against one another to well.

As normal with 4e this will use feats. However, it will also have different Paragon mechanics.

Initiate of Faith [multiclass cleric]
prerequisite: Wis 13
Benefit: You gain religion as a trained skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Student of the Sword [multiclass fighter]
prerequisite: Str, con or dex 13
Benefit: You gain Endurance as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Student of the Sword [multiclass fighter]
prerequisite: Str, con or dex 13
Benefit: You gain Endurance as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Soldier of the Faith [multiclass paladin]
prerequisite: Cha or Wis 13
Benefit: You gain Religion as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Warrior of the Wild [multiclass ranger]
prerequisite: Dex or Wis 13
Benefit: You gain Nature or Dungeoneering as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Sneak of Shadows [multiclass rogue]
prerequisite: int or dex 13
Benefit: You gain Thievery as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Pact Initiate [multiclass warlock]
prerequisite: Int, Con, Cha 13
Benefit: You gain arcane as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.

Student of Battle [multiclass warlord]
prerequisite: Cha or Int 13
Benefit: You gain Diplomacy as a Trained Skill. Choose one encounter power.
You may use the power you chose once a day.
Arcane Initiate [multiclass wizard]
prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: You gain arcane as a Trained Skill. When you take this feat you must choose a At-Will Power. You may use the power you chose once a encounter.


Novice Power [Multi Classing]
prerequisite: Any class specific multi classing feat, level 4
Benefit: When ever you gain a new encounter power you may choose it
from the class in which you have a multiclassing feat in.

Acolyte Power [Multi Classing]
prerequisite: Novice Power, level 8
Benefit: when ever you gain a new daily power you may choose it from the
class in which you have a multiclassing feat.


Multiclassing at Paragon tier.
You require all three multi classing feats for this option.

1.You gain the class features a member of the class normally does at 1st level.
2.You may select and reassign powers from both classes powers list.

 

[Ipissimus]

I bet not. That'd basically be admitting defeat.

I disagree. Personally, I think it makes sense. The basic problem is with allowing everyone to cherry pick powers and create synergistic combos greater than their constituent parts. Creating a purpose built paragon path with its own unique powers based off the flavor of those old prestige classes avoids the problem of nerfing a character concept while controlling their advancement in power.

It's not about defeat, it's doing the smart thing. Besides, Multiclassing in core 4e has been an afterthought, they admit that. The feats are good (and by most accounts we'll see more options there), but the Paragon Path option is sub standard compared to real paths. I don't blame them for this, I'd much rather they devote the space in the core books to basic gameplay then mess about with the more esoteric character concepts in future supplements rather than handing us an abusable mess off the bat. Until then, we've got a stop-gap.

Of course, technically, we've already got one 'multiclass' paragon path that I know if in the form of Wizard of the Spiral Tower. So we may not be seeing the old prestige classes under their old names.

 

[keterys]

Hmm, bit of an epiphany:

What if you singled out the core 'key feature' for each class and multiclassing gave you that key feature, but you couldn't use more than one key feature per turn.

For example:
Cleric: Healing Word
Fighter: Combat Challenge
Paladin: Divine Challenge
Rogue: Sneak Attack
Ranger: Hunter's Quarry
Warlock: Curse
Warlord: Inspiring Word
Wizard: ???

Hmm. The big problem seems to me that it's too nice for the healing classes for others taking the healing powers and for them taking other people's powers, because every other class actually uses its powers every round, but not too often on the healing ones.

Damn, and I thought I had something going there.

 

[Samurai]

I keep revising and changing this, thinking of new and better ways to do things, but here's what I currently have:

I'm keeping the initial multiclassing feats as they are for now. Yes, they effectively give the Skill Training feat plus an additional, weakened power, but they have a stat req. and you can only do it once, so the Skill Training feat still has its uses.

I'm combining the 3 Power Swap feats into a single Advanced Training feat, and giving a second weakened power with it, because several of the classes need them either for their powers or to use in their Paragon Paths, which are supposed to be open to a multiclasser (Ranger and Warlock are the main culprits here.)

• Advanced Training (Req: an initial Multiclassing feat, a 15 in the stat required for this class) – You gain the effects of all 3 power swap feats. So, at 4th level you may swap 1 Encounter power, at 8th level you may swap 1 Utility power, and at 10th level you may swap 1 Daily Attack power. In addition, you gain 1 minor class ability or power upon taking this feat:

Cleric: Choose 1 level 1 at will prayer as an Encounter power.

Fighter: Once per encounter, add your Wis bonus to an Opportunity attack roll when using your chosen type of weapon (1h or 2h). (You do not stop a moving opponent)

Paladin: Use Lay on Hands as an Encounter power

Ranger: Choose a Fighting Style (although weaker than a full Ranger’s fighting styles, these qualify you for the Paragon Paths and powers). If you choose Ranged style, you get a +2 AC bonus vs Opportunity attacks for 1 round per Encounter. If you choose the 2 Weapon style, you may use 1 handed weapons in your off hand as if it were an off-handed weapon.

Rogue: Once per Encounter, you may use the Rogue Weapon Talent for 1 round.

Warlock: Gain the Warlock’s Curse as an Encounter power

Warlord: Choose 1 form of Commanding Presence. You may use it once per Encounter

Wizard: Choose 2 of the 4 Cantrips. You may cast them as Encounter powers.


Ok, that brings us to the Paragon Paths. They needed some significant buffing IMO, including 2 additional 11th level abilities and a 16th level ability.

Paragon Multiclassing – The at will power gained at 11th level is an additional power, it does not replace one of your at will powers. Also, you either gain Skill Training in a second skill from your multiclass' list, or Skill Focus in the skill you already received Training in when you took the initial multiclass feat. At 16th level, you may choose 1 bonus power (Encounter, Daily Attack, or Utility) from the secondary class’ list, of 16th level or lower.



So, that's where I'm at right now. I think it is much more balanced than the RAW, and it solves the problems of trading a feat and a power for a power and Warlocks and Rangers multiclassers not having abilities that are needed for them to use certain powers. What do you think?

 

[keterys]

I'd suggest giving prime shot 1/enc instead of defensive mobility (which is a feat they might actually have) for the ranger ranged option.

I'd suggest giving the option to trade an action point to get back a multiclass encounter power, rather than skill focus/training.

 

[mattdm]

I keep revising and changing this, thinking of new and better ways to do things, but here's what I currently have:

I dunno. I think multiclassing as it is is reasonably attractive — certainly several of my players are already telling me that that's their plan for my upcoming game and I haven't house-ruled anything yet. The paragon path requirements could use fixing, and the paragon multiclass trade-off cost seems harsh, but beyond those things, I'm planning to wait and see.

 

[Samurai]

I'd suggest giving prime shot 1/enc instead of defensive mobility (which is a feat they might actually have) for the ranger ranged option.

I'd suggest giving the option to trade an action point to get back a multiclass encounter power, rather than skill focus/training.

Warlocks already get Prime Shot, so there's a chance of conflict there too, and Defensive Mobility is the listed effect for Ranged Style, which means all rangers get Prime shot, whichever style they choose (though it seems it's certainly more useful to a ranged stylist.) However, I'll give it some thought... the Prime Shot ability would be useful to other ranged attackers besides the Warlock, such as a Wizard and Rogues with shuriken. It wouldn't be as useful to Fighters and Warlords, but they'll probably choose the 2 handed style anyway... Hmmm, worth thinking about. Do you think it'd be ok to say "Prime Shot once per encounter unless you are a Warlock and thus already have Prime Shot, in which case you get Defensive Mobility once per encounter"?

As for the Action Point idea, I like it! I'll make the change in my house rules. Thanks!

 

[Samurai]

I dunno. I think multiclassing as it is is reasonably attractive — certainly several of my players are already telling me that that's their plan for my upcoming game and I haven't house-ruled anything yet. The paragon path requirements could use fixing, and the paragon multiclass trade-off cost seems harsh, but beyond those things, I'm planning to wait and see.

Are they planning to take the initial multiclass feat only, which is quite nice, or spend 3 feats to trade power for power and then go on to the multiclass Paragon Path and not only take lower level powers (7th at 11th, 10th at 12th, and 19th at 20th), but also give up 2 abilities at 11th level and 1 at 16th?

Because yeah, in the rules as written, I'd certainly be willing to take the initial MC feat if I qualified, instead of Skill Training. But I would stop right there and not get any of the power swap feats, and I certainly wouldn't take the Paragon Path.

 

[mattdm]

Are they planning to take the initial multiclass feat only, which is quite nice, or spend 3 feats to trade power for power and then go on to the multiclass Paragon Path and not only take lower level powers (7th at 11th, 10th at 12th, and 19th at 20th), but also give up 2 abilities at 11th level and 1 at 16th?

At least some of the power swap feats beyond the initial one. Not sure if they'll all go with the next three or beyond.

I'm 90% sure, though, that making the paragon multiclass option be in addition to a paragon path is gonna be my second house rule. (Giving a deity-specific feat to clerics for free is the first one.)

 

[keterys]

The power swap feats aren't bad, especially not at the moment because _many characters have nothing better to do with feats_

I especially like the utility one, as you don't run into implement/weapon/wrong stat problems, and they often do very cool things.

But yeah, the paragon path multiclass sucks.