Level Up (A5E) Parrying Weapons

Dual-Wielding just lets you use a bonus action for another attack with that weapon. I can't see anywhere that says you can't use a weapon in your off hand for other purposes, or even for an extra attack if you have one. Just have the scimitar in your main hand, use the short sword for parrying, and your bonus action for something else.
Okay, unless I'm completely and utterly misunderstanding how the rules work, you can only wield two weapons if the one in your off-hand has the dual-wielding property. The property is mandatory for your off-hand but completely irrelevent in your main hand.

None of the other properties care whether a weapon is primary or secondary, but that one absolutely does. You can have a shortsword in your primary hand and a scimitar in your off-hand--but not the other way around--because only the scimitar has the dual-wielding property. Other than the fact that one method of wielding the weapons is legal and one is illegal, there would be no other difference to doing so, and the remaining properties (which don't care about whether the weapon is primary or secondary) would all function.
 

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Stone Dog

Adventurer
Yeah, but if you aren't using two weapon fighting, then it doesn't matter if the weapon has the dual wielding property or not. Two weapon fighting only cares if you are trying to get more attacks in a round.


Dual-Wielding†. This weapon is designed to be wielded in concert with another weapon. When wielding another weapon in your main hand that does not have the heavy property, you can use your bonus action to make an attack with this weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting on page 446 in Chapter 8: Combat).

Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a weapon that does not have the heavy property that you are wielding in one hand, you can use your bonus action to attack with a different dual-wielding melee weapon that you are holding in your off-hand. You do not add your ability modifier to the damage roll of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can make a ranged weapon attack with it instead.​
If you have the Extra Attack feature, you can use your bonus action to make two attacks with the weapon in your off-hand.​

Unless there is something in some other part of the book I'm missing, there is nothing keeping you from having whatever you want in your off hand and using it for any purpose other than two weapon fighting.



If the rules are saying your off-hand stops working because you tried to put a shortsword in it, that is just dumb as hell.
 

Anselm

Adventurer
Yeah, but if you aren't using two weapon fighting, then it doesn't matter if the weapon has the dual wielding property or not. Two weapon fighting only cares if you are trying to get more attacks in a round.


Dual-Wielding†. This weapon is designed to be wielded in concert with another weapon. When wielding another weapon in your main hand that does not have the heavy property, you can use your bonus action to make an attack with this weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting on page 446 in Chapter 8: Combat).​
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a weapon that does not have the heavy property that you are wielding in one hand, you can use your bonus action to attack with a different dual-wielding melee weapon that you are holding in your off-hand. You do not add your ability modifier to the damage roll of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can make a ranged weapon attack with it instead.​
If you have the Extra Attack feature, you can use your bonus action to make two attacks with the weapon in your off-hand.​

Unless there is something in some other part of the book I'm missing, there is nothing keeping you from having whatever you want in your off hand and using it for any purpose other than two weapon fighting.



If the rules are saying your off-hand stops working because you tried to put a shortsword in it, that is just dumb as hell.
I think your right but I don't think it's the best use of your off-hand either. A shield (assuming you're proficient) offers a steady +2 to ac where a parrying weapon is only 1 turn and you can't sacrifice it to stop a critical hit.

Related but not because of your comment specifically, is there a rule about using the properties of a weapon only if you are proficient? I think there is, right?
 

Stone Dog

Adventurer
Yeah, maybe it isn't the best use, but is it forbidden is the curiosity. And a shield is absolutely better, unless you have an ability that says you can't have a shield and still use it.

Yes, "You can only benefit from properties marked with † if you are proficient with the weapon."
 

Anselm

Adventurer
Yeah, maybe it isn't the best use, but is it forbidden is the curiosity. And a shield is absolutely better, unless you have an ability that says you can't have a shield and still use it.

Yes, "You can only benefit from properties marked with † if you are proficient with the weapon."
For sure, and I can see cool situational uses for throwing a short sword in your off-hand because "better than nothing" but you still can't attack with it. I can't think of anything that would disallow that...
 

Stone Dog

Adventurer
I think you can still attack with it. The only thing I can find that you need your off-hand weapon to be dual-wielding for is using a bonus action to make more attacks with the two-weapon fighting rule.

Extra Attack on your character sheet? One swing with one weapon and one swing with the other, if you want.
Attack of opportunity? Either one.
Just want to shank somebody with a weapon in your off hand that you have a magical quality you want to use? Yeah, do that.
Other attack from a source that isn't the two-weapon fighting rule? Yeah, fighter, knock yourself out.




While I was doing a search in the PDF for "off-hand" to see if there was anything I'm missing, I found a new wrinkle, the Crossbow Expertise feat has an ability that lets you do something with the hand crossbow that the hand crossbow already lets you do. The hand crossbow is already dual wielding, it doesn't need a feat. This would be like Prone Shooter all over again if there weren't two other abilities there.
 

Anselm

Adventurer
The only thing I can find that you need your off-hand weapon to be dual-wielding for is using a bonus action to make more attacks with the two-weapon fighting rule.
Sure, didn't mean to preclude switching off, just that your bonus action doesn't get to do it.
The hand crossbow is already dual wielding, it doesn't need a feat. This would be like Prone Shooter all over again if there weren't two other abilities there.
My only guess here is because two weapon fighting states melee weapons can be used or thrown if they have the thrown property. Perhaps hand crossbows we're given dual wielding to eliminate any doubt for the expertise feat using them two dual handed
 
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Stone Dog

Adventurer
Ah, yes. The two-weapon fighting rule does specifically say it is a melee weapon you can use and the dual-wielding weapon property doesn't specify.

Thanks, Anselm.
 

Yeah, but if you aren't using two weapon fighting, then it doesn't matter if the weapon has the dual wielding property or not. Two weapon fighting only cares if you are trying to get more attacks in a round.


Dual-Wielding†. This weapon is designed to be wielded in concert with another weapon. When wielding another weapon in your main hand that does not have the heavy property, you can use your bonus action to make an attack with this weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting on page 446 in Chapter 8: Combat).​
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a weapon that does not have the heavy property that you are wielding in one hand, you can use your bonus action to attack with a different dual-wielding melee weapon that you are holding in your off-hand. You do not add your ability modifier to the damage roll of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can make a ranged weapon attack with it instead.​
If you have the Extra Attack feature, you can use your bonus action to make two attacks with the weapon in your off-hand.​

Unless there is something in some other part of the book I'm missing, there is nothing keeping you from having whatever you want in your off hand and using it for any purpose other than two weapon fighting.



If the rules are saying your off-hand stops working because you tried to put a shortsword in it, that is just dumb as hell.
Of course; I thought you were referring to actually using the two-weapon fighting rules. I agree that there is nothing I can see preventing you from using weapon properties from a weapon held in your off-hand, unless there is some restriction on what counts as “wielding”.
 

Although the first page kind of walked through the through process of its medieval fantasy based loosely on realism mind set, I was curious and googled parrying with a rapier and the first result was a young lady on YouTube, displaying the parrying techniques against other rapiers. I can mentally see the same parry against a longsword not being as effective but I’d rather be able to have house rule it rather than go down that 2e rabbit hole of charts showing +/- for various weapons vs armor types (my 16 year old brain back then thought that was cool and “real” but stunk during play).
 

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