Party stuck on puzzle. Any ideas?

[Question]

What corpse? By definition, a dread wraith has no corpse. You need a true resurrection, buddy. If your equipment is still there, it's on the ground. No looting required.

The DM decided to say that after killing the dread wraith it transformed into my lifeless body. It doesnt make much difference either way.

 

[Question]

Update : I complained to the DM about the insta kill. This is basically what he had to say :

"I dont know what you are complaining about, you failed the DC 40 will save but the DC 25 fort save was perfectly within ECL 15 limits and that was what killed you. The trap had nothing to do with you, that was how i wrote it a year ago in 2005. You can also get resurrected because im the DM and i dont care about material components, and the party has a 2 charge rod of resurrection given by the quest NPC, so just get back into the game."

So it seems that i still lose one level even though i can get resurrected(i dont remember anything about the quest NPC giving a rod of resurrection, which i cant find in anywhere, but i assume its a rod that casts resurrection).

 

[Fat Daddy]

Update : I complained to the DM about the insta kill. This is basically what he had to say :

"I dont know what you are complaining about, you failed the DC 40 will save but the DC 25 fort save was perfectly within ECL 15 limits and that was what killed you. The trap had nothing to do with you, that was how i wrote it a year ago in 2005. You can also get resurrected because im the DM and i dont care about material components, and the party has a 2 charge rod of resurrection given by the quest NPC, so just get back into the game."

So it seems that i still lose one level even though i can get resurrected(i dont remember anything about the quest NPC giving a rod of resurrection, which i cant find in anywhere, but i assume its a rod that casts resurrection).

IMHO you should use your "Staff of I'm going to Enworld to find a new DM" (note: you probably won't find that in any official products either)

 

[Infiniti2000]

The trap had nothing to do with you, that was how i wrote it a year ago in 2005.

It doesn't matter when he wrote it. It sucked in 2005 and it sucks in 2006 and it will suck in 2007. Tell him to stop writing traps until he figures out how to make them fun for the players.

 

[KarinsDad]

Update : I complained to the DM about the insta kill. This is basically what he had to say :

"I dont know what you are complaining about, you failed the DC 40 will save but the DC 25 fort save was perfectly within ECL 15 limits and that was what killed you. The trap had nothing to do with you, that was how i wrote it a year ago in 2005. You can also get resurrected because im the DM and i dont care about material components, and the party has a 2 charge rod of resurrection given by the quest NPC, so just get back into the game."

So it seems that i still lose one level even though i can get resurrected(i dont remember anything about the quest NPC giving a rod of resurrection, which i cant find in anywhere, but i assume its a rod that casts resurrection).

DC 40 saves are ridiculous at that level.

DC 25 Instakill saves are ridiculous at that level.


If I were you, here is what I would do:

1) Write an Email explaining how the DM is messing up royally. Be polite. Copy in all of the other players.

2) DMG page 68. A spell trap with a DC of 25 (DC 10 + 1.5 * spell level) is equal to a 10th level spell. So, he sent a 10th level instakill spell against the party. That is an epic level encounter, not an EL 15 one.

3) The DC 40 Will save is also an Epic level save. It is basically a 5% chance at your levels. The levels at which PCs can make that save even 10% of the time are about: Divine Good Save PC Level 14 (e.g. Druid or Cleric), Non-divine Good Save PC Level 18 (e.g. Wizard or Sorcerer), Bad Save PC Level 30 (e.g. Fighter or Rogue). For a reasonable challenge save of 50%, the levels would be about: Divine Good Save PC Level 22, Non-divine Good Save PC Level 28, Bad Save PC Level 45.

4) Explain how you will be leaving the game now if that is what you want to do. Personally, I would. There are a lot of much better games out there. Just check out Storyhour.

5) Suggest that the other players leave the game as well. Explain how sooner or later, the DM will use his power tripping to kill them off and that it could just as easily been one of them who got auto-instakilled instead of you.


Let me tell you a story. I was playing a "raised by wolves" type of PC several years back. The DM gave me additional background where the PC's first encounter with civilization was by being beaten and captured. The PCs were low level and several encounters were with civilized people just walking up to us and attacking us (e.g. press gangs, etc.). My PC knew nothing about civilized ways.

So, we got ambushed by some mercenaries in the middle of the street. After the fight, we went up to their "headquarters" in town and asked to see the "leader" (from the perspective of my PC, we went up to the other tribe and asked to see the chief). The two guards outside did not even call in to anyone inside, they just refused us outright. So, my PC attacked the one guard (remember, he knows nothing about civilization and has been conditioned by the DM via background and encounters to think that conflict is resolved violently in civilized areas).

So, the DM asks what each PC is doing. Two PCs fled. One PC stuck around to help my PC out. The DM rules that the two PCs who fled got away, but that mercenaries start coming out of taverns and buildings all over the area and beat the two of us unconsious. Later on, he states that the other PC is woken up, but that my PC was killed.

No combat. No rolling (btw, my PC had a very high AC and speed and could easily have outrun most armed and armored opponents if push came to shove).

So, one of the other players asks the DM why we could not play out the battle as opposed to an instakill. The DM replies with: "It is not worth my time."

So, I replied with: "This game is not worth my time." and walked out of the DM's house.

I was not really annoyed until the DM made that comment. This is no different than the "I dont know what you are complaining about" comment from your DM.

If your DM does not know why you are complaining, then he should not be sitting in the DM chair. Period.

And personally, I would tell him so. Why put up with such egotistical crap from someone you probably do not even know that well?

 

[Question]

I now quote the following passage :

the game is balanced, i know because i followed table 3-2: Encounter Difficulty in the DMG when i originally designed the thing. i followed the rule that 5% of encounters should be overpowering, EL 5+ higher than party level. bottomline is your character has died once as a result of a choice you made, more specifically, as a result of a bad die roll you made. you want to argue and complain about it, imply that i'm being unfair and that the game is unbalanced, but i'm done. if you don't want to continue, then move on, and quite frankly, at this point maybe that would be best.

Yes, im done allright.

 

[javcs]

The difference there is, the WoTC designers, and the vast majority of players would think an ECL of around 5 or 6 higher than the party for an 'overpowering' encounter ... not something where your characters would have difficulties on the saves even if they all had the epic paragon template applied to them. Alright, maybe I'm exagerating a bit, but with +14 save mod, applying the epic paragon boosts the save by 17 or 18 max, you're still not gonna get a DC 40 that often, the DC 25, yeah, it's easier, but last time I checked, DMs weren't supposed to assume that all of the PCs in their campaign had the paragon template ...

I mean, I DM sometimes, and the closest thing to an instant kill that I remember doing was to a pixie rogue 4 who tried to walk through about 5 walls of fire and lighting ... that were wrapped around an inhospitable stronghold ... I digress ... and even that required about 5 reflex saves ... and she was fortunate enough to get reincarnated as a pixie again. I think that was in a level 10 campaign, the pixie had the +6 LA ... no idea why.

Personally, I think he just made those numbers up when asked about it. And that trying to cut down the corpse was not something he'd thought of, so he ad-hoced the situation, which would explain the basic dread wraith ... as opposed to a customized one. Also that he didn't think about the effect that it'd have, or he was trying, and failing, to indicate that the party's goals lay elsewhere ... but, that entire situation stinks to me of something that you'd expect from a DIETY ... and a moderately powerful one, too ... in an epic campaign that had been going on for some time as epic.

 

[MarkB]

I now quote the following passage :

the game is balanced, i know because i followed table 3-2: Encounter Difficulty in the DMG when i originally designed the thing. i followed the rule that 5% of encounters should be overpowering, EL 5+ higher than party level. bottomline is your character has died once as a result of a choice you made, more specifically, as a result of a bad die roll you made. you want to argue and complain about it, imply that i'm being unfair and that the game is unbalanced, but i'm done. if you don't want to continue, then move on, and quite frankly, at this point maybe that would be best.

Yes, im done allright.

Sounds like the best move. It doesn't sound like you can expect things to get any better with this DM.

DMs who don't slavishly follow the rules will have the good sense, when including an overwhelming encounter, to provide some form of advance warning as to its deadliness. They will also not place it across the path of the adventure as a roadblock except, perhaps, as a climactic final battle.

"Solve or die" puzzles are hard to excuse in any case, but quoting the rules on encounter difficulty doesn't even begin to address the issue.

 

[Nail]

I now quote the following passage....

Wow.

That's an amazingly awful response. Just amazing. Coupled with how the "trap" worked, I'd say you made the right choice to leave.

Tell me: Why is it that once someone puts on the "DM Hat", they think they can get away with this sort of crap? Everyone makes mistakes => just because you're the DM doesn't mean you've become perfect.

 

[Question]

The scary thing is he truly believes hes right......and that at least one of the players believe so. The player actually said that DMs were allowed to kill players. The irony is hes a DM himself and im fairly sure he wouldnt dream of killing off his players randomly.