party wants railroading

[Robtheman]

i have thought about telling one of them to try taking over the DM reins for a while, but i thought the problem to be that they would lack the resources to actually design adventures for us - we are all poor university students, having zero store bought adventures, relying on free materials and my creativity for our campaign. as i am a bit more experienced regarding d&d (all of the group is completely new to tabletop gaming) i took the DM/adventure designer role happily, but i guess i could help them if they run into trouble by being a kind of co-designer, helping them make monsters/encounters and maps (i am the only one that has dundjinni). hopefully their lack of completely rules mastery wouldnt be disturbing at the table. definitely an idea to look at.

With all due respect, I'd suggest you don't have them take part in the planning. You have slayers and probably a bit of metagaming/tactical mastery going on from the players perspective. Removing the mystery won't push them towards immersion.

I doubt they are resisting RP out of a lack of respect or appreciation for what you are doing. I'd bet the opposite, or your original post would sound different and cite different problems. It's a bit uncomfortable to throw yourself in to those first attempts at "being" your character. In addition, college is just as much of a peer pressure situation as high school. Going out on a limb with heavy RP, or engaging with NPCs in a serious manner can feel like a risk, even in front of friends. I admit I don't know the players involved though, so take it for what it is worth.

Incorporating the RP in a more joking or bravado style (during encounters or not) may help them to work towards RP as a fun addition to their hack and slash adventures. I've found that even the most reticent role player can get in to certain RP aspects if they have a chance to find their voice in a way that fits their personality.

Give them some time and ease them in to it.

 

[Incenjucar]

If indeed you must railroad, this is a good place for such things as prophecies, fate, divine guidance, membership in an organization, reliving a mythic cycle, and so on. There's no reason the railroading can't be PART of the adventure.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If indeed you must railroad, this is a good place for such things as prophecies, fate, divine guidance, membership in an organization, reliving a mythic cycle, and so on. There's no reason the railroading can't be PART of the adventure.

Yeah, I was going to say something along these lines too.

Other things to try might be giving them some sort of artifact or just some 'interesting' items that generate some story. Worst case it might get them identifying with the character if it picks up some quirks and whatnot. It may not get them into RPing in a big way, but when the character is pretty distinctive at least they start to find it more interesting and that can lead to some real character development.

 

[ffy]

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[Dungeoneer]

Don't forget rewards. I recently emailed my players and told them I would grant them a boon in they came up with a specific piece of RP background for their characters. Got a lot of responses!

If they're really into dungeon crawling, remember dungeons aren't just about the combat. They're also about the dismembering traps, the pools of corrosive acid and the devious secret passages. You can at least teach them that just charging ahead into combat every time is not the path to longevity. Maybe then they'll WANT to talk to that helpful NPC!

 

[Robtheman]

Props to the GM and OP meeting his players half-way. Hopefully they deserve the hard work and reflection you are investing in this adventure.

A few more thoughts. I have a pretty fun game going now. 5 players, 2 very experienced GMs among them and two virtual newbs. Now in my case they love to role play so it's easier for me. However, I believe I fell in to a trap similar to one that ffy is experiencing. The players felt a little lost and were not as engaged in the narrative as I would like.

After some discussion it became clear I was giving too many choices. The most experienced of the GMs (Durn on these boards) let me know that he'd actually prefer a little more direction. Now that doesn't mean I hit them over the head with a Clue-by-Four. It means directing the narrative in a manner that my players are capable of following.

Perhaps providing puzzles and riddles will get them to start talking to each other in game. If you want to you can narrate their out of character choices. If the Avenger tells the Barbarian that he'd like to see

You might also try something I like to use in games. It brings Role Playing into the combat and makes the players feel more like heroes.

Awesome Cards! Yeah!
Each player receives one at the beginning of each encounter. They don't stack between encounters. They can turn it in and spend a healing surge to do something akin to an encounter power (use page 42 to adjudicate the damage/skill checks). The improvised action must be awesome and they have to describe what they do. This might not get them to talk in character with NPCs, but it would get them in to the idea of looking beyond the power cards and battle map. The most memorable moments in our campaign have been the result of someone nearly dying and another player using their Awesome Card to save them from certain death. As an aside their seem to be many tall cliffs in my campaign world.

A second idea is to remove the battle map and minis for small skirmishes. Sketch a simple map and make the enemies minions. The party members can use powers or basic attacks to hit. You can describe whether they are close enough or too far away. Be flexible at first. If you think they are too far away, let them move and attack or fudge the distance in your mind. The point is they will need to describe everything and begin imagining the scene in their head instead of on the table in front of them. Encourage the use of skills in combat and flip back and forth between initiative and free flowing combat. Fighting on the run, hiding, setting ambushes, can all be accomplished this way to create cinematic and exciting encounters. This might help you have more fun with some of the encounters with out disappointing your players.

 

[frankthedm]

but how does a DM make a game like that more interesting for himself?

Start liking squad level tactics or inform the group they need to find a new DM.

 

[Ahrimon]

It sounds to me like your players are approaching the game from a MMO viewpoint. Click through to get the quest, go kill stuff, and get a reward.

I don't know if they'll ever change. But I wish you the best of luck. Remember, finding a new group is not the end of the world.

 

[Herobizkit]

Final Fantasy Tactics.

A rich story-line punctuated with fight after fight after fight, but (usually) each fight has a purpose, theme, or mini-RP in it.

Heck, if none of them have a Nintendo DS, you could rip the whole series of "quests" from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 and they'd never know or care.

How's it fun for YOU? Well, the most fun comes from planning ahead, and since they want a simple game, it's pretty easy. Did you ever play MUDs as a kid/teen/adult? If not, the core concept was basically a grid with cardinal exits, each "room" connected by a "door" (N,S,E,W,Up,Down, and sometimes "In"). The fun for you would probably come form designing the areas where they plan on traveling and how to coalesce a story from seemingly random fights. And the whole idea of "optional side quests" will drive your players ever forward.

So, to sum up:
* They want a game, give 'em a game. MUDs, Final Fantasy Tactics (et al), the later Dragon Quest series (paying tribute to the "you cannot go here until A, B, and C", period), and World of Warcraft should give you all kinds of inspiration.
* The fluff, or what exists in your game, is still entirely in your control. Connecting unrelated plots, or laying tracks for the railroad, is where the fun is. You're the chef; the players are hungry patrons. They'll eat whatever you cook, whether it's coq au vin or burgers... what do you want to make?
* 4th edition is specifically designed for the battle map, so don't be too surprised if fighting is what your players want to do - it's visual versus imaginary.

 

[ffy]

thanks for the great ideas, i am trying to rewrite the next adventure by taking into account a lot of what has been said here.