D&D 5E Passive Checks as Ersatz "Take 10" ?

[iserith]

I feel this can also solidify a character's role in the adventure party, specifically in the campaign world versus their character class.

It also sort of follows the Acquisitions Incorporated party model. ^_^

Yes, a consistent party will see everyone settle into the same roles and marching order, more or less. Feats like Dungeon Delver get chosen as well because it's actually beneficial.

 

[Obreon]

In case, it's helpful, here's an example of how I set up Exploration Tasks. This is from a dungeon crawl one-shot.

With this information, the party can configure its marching order, pace, and tasks in a manner according to what's important to them and to the strengths of the party members. You will note that I depart from other posters with regard to passive checks versus static DCs. I see no issue with this.

This is really cool. I like the way there are lots of interesting trade-offs for the players to make. One thing that isn't clear to me: how do you run WM checks and time tracking with this? You're keying quite a lot of stuff off the pace of movement, but in practice movement makes up only a very small fraction of the characters' time in the dungeon, unless you revert to AD&D movement rates - and even then you need some long corridors before it becomes a factor. With the traditional approach to WM checks (1 in x every y minutes) most of them are going to take place while the PCs aren't really "moving at a pace" - they're poking around looking at stuff, solving puzzles, fighting other monsters etc - and if they have a lookout keeping watch they are most likely going to be stationary. As such I can't imagine that the benefit of fast movement (reduced WM chance) would come into play very much, since the vast majority of WM rolls aren't going to happen during movement.

Do you have a different/abstract way of doing time-keeping/WM checks?

Cheers!

 

[iserith]

This is really cool. I like the way there are lots of interesting trade-offs for the players to make. One thing that isn't clear to me: how do you run WM checks and time tracking with this? You're keying quite a lot of stuff off the pace of movement, but in practice movement makes up only a very small fraction of the characters' time in the dungeon, unless you revert to AD&D movement rates - and even then you need some long corridors before it becomes a factor. With the traditional approach to WM checks (1 in x every y minutes) most of them are going to take place while the PCs aren't really "moving at a pace" - they're poking around looking at stuff, solving puzzles, fighting other monsters etc - and if they have a lookout keeping watch they are most likely going to be stationary. As such I can't imagine that the benefit of fast movement (reduced WM chance) would come into play very much, since the vast majority of WM rolls aren't going to happen during movement.

Do you have a different/abstract way of doing time-keeping/WM checks?

Cheers!

Pace in this case applies to movement and to how quickly you perform your tasks (meticulous, normal, or hasty?), hence the higher DCs for a faster pace. Wandering monster checks are typically only made when the PCs knowingly spend time on a task. It's kept abstract instead of pinning it to a set number of minutes. The chances of a wandering monster go down with each chamber they explore. A fast pace is desirable when you're low on resources (especially time) since the DC goes up as the number of cleared chambers goes up. It's also a good pace for backtracking. Early in the dungeon, at least a normal pace is desirable to avoid wasting resources on wanderers. This means they can't move stealthily though. Sometimes I make it where traps and secret doors can only be found at a Slow pace, but didn't do that in this dungeon.

In this scenario, the PCs have 18 hours to complete their mission before a large enemy force turns up to take the dungeon, effectively meaning they're killed or captured.

 

[Obreon]

Pace in this case applies to movement and to how quickly you perform your tasks (meticulous, normal, or hasty?), hence the higher DCs for a faster pace. Wandering monster checks are typically only made when the PCs knowingly spend time on a task. It's kept abstract instead of pinning it to a set number of minutes.

Right, so the PCs enter a room and decide to search it - and they have the choice whether to do that fast - less chance of WM check, but lower chance of success - or slow - more chance of WM, more chance of success. Either way, you're going to make the WM check, but the probabilities change. I like that - it's quick, simple and gives the party clear tactical decisions to make.

Do you enforce a single pace for the party at any given point? So there's no "He's searching quickly but I'm keeping lookout slowly" shenanigans? I guess you have to or the WM stuff doesn't work.

Given that you're making time abstract in this way, what do you do about time-limited resources - spell durations, torches etc? I'd be tempted to say that all substantial exploration actions took a multiple of 10 minutes for time tracking purposes, irrespective of "pace". It's a fudge but it doesn't do too much violence to the fiction and it saves a lot of tedious bookkeeping...

 

[iserith]

Right, so the PCs enter a room and decide to search it - and they have the choice whether to do that fast - less chance of WM check, but lower chance of success - or slow - more chance of WM, more chance of success. Either way, you're going to make the WM check, but the probabilities change. I like that - it's quick, simple and gives the party clear tactical decisions to make.

Do you enforce a single pace for the party at any given point? So there's no "He's searching quickly but I'm keeping lookout slowly" shenanigans? I guess you have to or the WM stuff doesn't work.

I think the general rule of "You're as slow as the slowest member of the party" is a good rule of thumb here. Players understand that in my experience.

Given that you're making time abstract in this way, what do you do about time-limited resources - spell durations, torches etc? I'd be tempted to say that all substantial exploration actions took a multiple of 10 minutes for time tracking purposes, irrespective of "pace". It's a fudge but it doesn't do too much violence to the fiction and it saves a lot of tedious bookkeeping...

I generally think of things in terms of 10-minute blocks, but I'm not set on a particular time for any given activity. I make a judgment call in the moment and try to be as fair and consistent as possible.

 

[Obreon]

I generally think of things in terms of 10-minute blocks, but I'm not set on a particular time for any given activity. I make a judgment call in the moment and try to be as fair and consistent as possible.

Right. I do more or less the same but none of our group are good at timekeeping, so anything that make it easy and obvious to run is good. Saying that by default every exploration action that isn't trivial takes 1 "unit" (nominally 10 minutes) makes it pretty clear what the stakes are to everyone. Obviously there will be cases where it makes sense to allow multiple actions in a unit, and cases where something clearly takes longer than 1 unit (e.g. searching a huge area).

I guess the only worry is that doing this might detract somewhat from the wider sense of tension if there's an external time limit - since the party wouldn't have a sense that hustling saved them time. Then again, if WM encounters cost time, hustling is likely to save time indirectly, so maybe that's enough...

Thanks for answering all my questions! I've only recently starting DMing again after 25 years or so away from the hobby and I have a lot of learning to do!

 

[jgsugden]

I use passive checks a lot more now.

All knowledge checks (intelligence skills and some wisdom skills) are passive checks not requiring an action. If you want to sit and think about something, you can up the result half the time with a good skill check.

Perception, Investigation and Insight are always on as a passive check.

Acrobatics and Athletics require no rolls if there is no urgency and the passive beats the DC.

Animal Handling, Deception, Intimidation, Performance, Persuasion and Sleight of Hand are pretty much always rolled and require an action to use.