Pathfinder 1E PATHFINDER: Man With Two Guns

[N'raac]

The Man With Two Guns feat allows you to "draw and attack with firearms as if you had the Quick Draw and Two Weapon Fighting feats".

How is this interpreted where the character has a firearm in one hand and, say, a sword in the other? Does the character:

(a) get the benefits of the 2 weapon fighting feat since he has a firearm?

(b) get no benefit from the 2 weapon fighting feat since he has a non-firearm weapon?

(c) compute his attack bonus with the firearm applying all modifiers for the 2 weapon fighting feat, but his sword attack bonus with all penalties for 2 weapon fighting, unmodified by the feat?

 

[RangerWickett]

Thurston groks the PF rules better than I, but I can offer that the intention was to make it viable for a 1st level PC to bust out a pair of pistols and look cool for a round. (Then he has to reload the guns, at least until higher level when he can get revolvers or some other quick reload option.)

I'm generally a fan of allowing limited bursts of coolness even if it's not a strict reading of the rules, so I'd probably go for A. But again, Thurston will have to comment on the relative balance of that situation.

 

[N'raac]

I could see any of the three. It's a bit of a self-defeating model, given one must have a hand free to reload a firearm (and revolvers aren't around yet, are they?), but I could certainly see the intention being motivating the "bandolier of pistols" type character.

There is a feat somewhere in the PF system that allows a character who already has 2 W Fighting to fight with a gun in one hand and not attract an AoO when firing it (not too far off "Man w/ 2 Guns), but I can see any of the three answers being reasonable. But they would guide differing character designs. A fellow with a belt full of pistols and a sword (or dwarven waraxe in our case) using his regular melee iterations combined with a blast of a pistol each round works well under (a), fails miserably under (b) and is heavily disadvantaged under (c).

Who has enough money for 2 guns at L1 anyway? 25% doesnt help that much!

[Just for interest, I'm not even playing a firearm user, but our son wants to run a gunslinger and we're helping him build the character. So far, it looks pretty good.]

I'll keep my eyes open for the PF intent - this is also our first foray into PF, so the balance issues could easily be overlooked at our end. Ultimately, though, the feat is supposed to be more powerful than a normal feat, so I'd agree with (a) seeming the most reasonable unless the intent is specifically to motivate away from "sword and shot" musketeers towards the "Two Gun Kid".

The great thing about Zeitgeist, from just the player's guide, is the flavour of the setting - without starting the game, the setting largely comes alive (no mean feat in a 32 page book with a lot of mechanics). I'm remided a lot of the Steven Brust homages to the 3 Musketeers, Phoenix Guard, and the Vlad Taltos novels to a lesser extent. Out of curiosity, did these influence the setting at all? [They didn't use firearms, but they effectively back doored magic items to fill that role.]

 

[RangerWickett]

I've never read those books. I couldn't really put my finger on where inspiration came from. It's sort of a synthesis of a lot of sources, all hooked into trying to make Victorian-style technology fit into a world with a D&D background.

The name of the feat comes from a short story a friend of mine wrote. I just thought it sounded cool.

 

[Rugult]

The intent here was more along the lines of option B.

-PCs with two guns get the TWF feat for free (yes annoying when it comes to reloading if you don't have multiple guns and annoying for the first bit when you don't have a second gun).

-PCs don't provoke AoO when shooting in melee with their initial shots.


As for the other feats, the Player's Guide was awkwardly out before Ultimate Combat, so not all the feats had been published (nor had the firearms rules been finalized yet). For now it's still a pretty wicked feat, as later on shooting twice without AoOs will be brutal, especially if the PCs get revolvers!

Pew Pew Bang Bang Pew Pew Bang Bang

 

[N'raac]

That's two mentions of revolvers that the PG says don't exist "unless introduced in later adventures". I'm getting the sense we will see revolvers introduced in (perhaps sooner rather than) later adventures.

So, were I playing a gun wielder, I would steer clear of those feats that require application to a specific type of weapon until these more advanced firearms develop.

Could be a nifty plot hook for our gunslinger, actually, as his parents are Danoran expatriates/defectors/refugees who came to Risur with Aodhan's rise to power *, and have done considerable work in firearm development, now owning a factory in Flint which supplied arms in the Yerasol war.

* They're dwarves - they arrived 40 years ago, shortly after Aodhan took power and started moving for technological development, and the gunslinger is 45 (minimum age for most trained fighter classes). Our fresh (albeit bearded) faced naive little patriot, eager to serve his country with no sense of what that might entail (perfect for his relatively young player).

 

[TarionzCousin]

Do you want this thread moved to the Pathfinder forum where the experts lurk?

 

[N'raac]

Do you want this thread moved to the Pathfinder forum where the experts lurk?

No thanks - this is really all about the Zeitgeist-specific feat and that setting's firearms availability.

When we first were looking for availability, I commented that I could see a number of different possibilities and that, given the campaign theme, I could also see a pretty strong case for changes as the campaign advanced.