Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[prosfilaes]

It is, and it's eminently reasonable to want to play a perfect game. But D&D is not perfect, and the inconvenience that errata imposes is about as minor as an inconvenience can be.

Which seems to be your standard position; if it doesn't annoy you, it's obviously not a real inconvenience.

And it's this mentality which has resulted in IE6's stubborn refusal to die a long-overdue death, which has in turn hampered the entire field of web development.

And? That just shows that no matter what the cost, many reasonable people prefer stability over constant change.

"Constantly changing" and "beta" are not one and the same.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. These errata are not bug fixes, they're improvements, which means you're not doing stable releases any more.

No, I'm offering that as a reward to the people who do want it, and telling the people who find it inconvenient that it's time to accept it, stop complaining over something so minor that is not going to change, and move on.

Again, everything that doesn't annoy you is not minor to those who it does.

 

[rkwoodard]

Interesting

[General W. Monger]Please don't cry little girls, it makes my knees hurt.[/General W. Monger]

We get the point - you two don't agree. Let's move on.

Is WotC's pulling back on their print release schedule a good thing?

I think that it is, that WotC had been saturating their market, and that slowing down will allow some breathing room so that products in the same lines won't be competing with each other.

Thoughts, agreements, or disagreements?

The Auld Grump, let us at least have a structured argument....

I think it is interesting that White Wolf, another big dog from days past, has (I think officially) discarded the real book market in favor of PDF development (and maybe Print on Demand).

I think WOTC can certainly make the e-delievery stream work as their main focus.

And I think this is wonderful for all parties. It will be easy for the offical D&D crowd to get their game, and

It allows companies that can thrive on smaller sales well thrive the in the physical product market, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, C&C, Dragon Age

I am seeing a lot of hype these days from systems that are very different.

And this is very very good. I hope it works out for WOTC, Paizo, PEG, and Troll Lords, and all the others. The more successful companies and games, the better.

RK

 

[Dannager]

And? That just shows that no matter what the cost, many reasonable people prefer stability over constant change.

And it demonstrates the effect that people who cling to what is stable despite the minor inconvenience of accepting the change can do to the industry or community at large.

As for whether the people who cling to IE6 are reasonable...well...see for yourself.

 

[Dannager]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. These errata are not bug fixes, they're improvements, which means you're not doing stable releases any more.

Is it your contention that every currently-supported MMO in existence is in "beta"? Because that's what you're saying here.

Again, everything that doesn't annoy you is not minor to those who it does.

I daresay that I am just as inconvenienced by errata as the next guy, if not moreso. So what do you think the difference is between me and the sort of person who complains about the idea of rules updates?

 

[billd91]

Not as long as you're using the Character Builder.

Then again, if you're using the Character Builder, it's not like you have to do any legwork to incorporate the errata anyway.

Except that wasn't the issue. The issue isn't ease of incorporation, it's ability to opt out.

The ones for whom flaws in the system are proving problematic. Fixing those flaws alleviates the immediate problems, and ensures that any group that would have eventually run into that problem doesn't.

The groups who aren't experiencing any trouble with it probably won't even notice the change (since they're probably not using the option in question), and if they do it is a minor inconvenience at most.

Except that we've learned from this discussion that this isn't true. It seems to annoy some people.

 

[IronWolf]

Much of the gaming community approves of WotC's handling of rules updates.

You still have not defined much. What is your basis that "much" of the gaming community approves of WotC's handling of rules updates?

 

[Dannager]

You still have not defined much. What is your basis that "much" of the gaming community approves of WotC's handling of rules updates?

A nebulous figure wheeled out of the shed to combat the equally nebulous idea that many people are irked with rules updates.

Neither side has any numbers, and we're all operating on guesswork.

 

[IronWolf]

Neither side has any numbers, and we're all operating on guesswork.

Exactly.

 

[MacMathan]

To Reply to The Auld Grump:

Yes I think the pull back on the release schedule is a good thing overall. It will give them time to adjust to the internal restructure and keep from over saturating the market.

I think they are looking to pursue a digital option. Were I a rich man who just bought the license ala Wizards of old. I would invest in vastly improving the digital initiatives.

Get an online suite developed to a AAA level that has Character Builder, Monster Builder, VTT etc. Charge a monthly for it and have occasional free weekends to allow players to check it out the don't have FLGS to play at.

Release the books in either PDF or E-book format to keep up with current devices.

Continue to push the in store game play and continue finding ways to introduce new players (board game, social mini-games etc).

Since this thread is also about Paizo I think Wizards pullback is good for them too. It allows them time to further expand and solidify their market. Heck I could see Paizo implementing some of the ideas above faster and better than WotC they seem much more agile as a company.

Overall I hope the sales lead does continue to swap back and forth between the two. Competition is good for the consumer ala Microsoft/apple, intel/amd, coke/pepsi etc.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Though WotC making more boardgames that tie into DnD might work well in that regard so it might end up being a good strat, only time will tell. Since once a gamer gets a DDI account books are less important, so as long as WotC manages to keep good gateways for existing gamers and new gamers to draw them to the DDI eventually. Then having a lot of books on shelves or not I doubt will have much effect one way or the other.

Whee Let's take the segue!

Has anybody tried Conflict, a competitive Pathfinder based game? Labeled Roleplaying it seems much more a boardgame to me. It looks like it might be fun.

From the product description:
Most RPGs involve groups of players pitted against a challenge orchestrated by a GM, but there are times when that guy on the other side of the game table… man, you just want to slap the overconfident grin off his stupid mug. If you want player vs player competition—if you’re looking to provide your players with a chess match that pits their wits against real-world prey—you want the Conflict Roleplaying Rulebook!

This system is fully compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.

* This RPG system is uniquely designed for competitive, team vs. team roleplaying which includes: Passcards—Double-sided 8x11 templates to adjudicate player character’s hidden movements and actions.
* Pre-generated characters and teams for immediate play with easy-to-modify stat blocks for each character.
* The Battlepoint System—A simple calculation for ensuring game balance among characters and levels.
* Match Types—Different objectives, challenges or scenarios that make each match surprisingly unique.
* Map Elements—Magical devices that you place before the match to hinder opposing teams or enhance your own teammates.
* Conflict Laws—Universal rules that dictate character environmental handicaps, player interactions and classes.
* Team Feats—New Feats that grant bonus and special abilities to teammates when they compete together.
* A list of enemy taunts and battlecries. Handy combat charts for easy reference and even a list of funny team names for your group.

Just in case folks thought that WotC was getting all the boardgame fun.... The use of objectives, battlepoints, etc. seems like a cross between Pathfinder, Mordheim, and Bloodbowl....

The Auld Grump