Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[Mournblade94]

Dude. We used the world's most perfect example of a sports team. The problem is that the points flew right over everyone's head as people started arguing that a perfect sports team would be one that would have everyone who exceled at everything. Also, once again have you actually played the game? Powers wildly vary in their ability to fulfill role criteria. The most hilarious of which is the Warlord whose power sets tactics range from suicidal to extremely cautious. I all ready told you this before with your complaint about blinding barrage but classes aren't pigeon holed into a single role.

Definition of Perfect:

excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement

The sports model is neither excellent or complete when comparing non competetive RPG's. Plus on a pure gamist level there are theorists who could argue either way.

 

[technoextreme]

The sports model is neither excellent or complete when comparing non competetive RPG's.

You do realize that terms you would normally use to describe conflict like protagonist and antagonist are actually sports terms. Also, sports are the simplest example of what actually does occur in RPG's. There really isn't all that much different from running a sports game than fighting the big bad besides how the conflict gets resolved.

 

[Nagol]

You do realize that terms you would normally use to describe conflict like protagonist and antagonist are actually sports terms. Also, sports are the simplest example of what actually does occur in RPG's. There really isn't all that much different from running a sports game than fighting the big bad besides how the conflict gets resolved.

The *tagonist terms are from Greek drama. sports may have adopted them for some use, but RPGs got them from literature.

 

[technoextreme]

The *tagonist terms are from Greek drama. sports may have adopted them for some use, but RPGs got them from literature.

Technically, prot and ant are the prexfixes with agonist being the word modified. An agonist was originally a term for competior. That is the base word. An antagonist and protagonist were nothing than competitors in a Greek drama.

 

[Mournblade94]

You do realize that terms you would normally use to describe conflict like protagonist and antagonist are actually sports terms.

No actually, sports adopted those terms. They did not originate there. You did realize this didn't you? (see how that last line sounds?)
Before you get snarky make sure what you are saying holds weight please.

Also, sports are the simplest example of what actually does occur in RPG's. There really isn't all that much different from running a sports game than fighting the big bad besides how the conflict gets resolved.

Physics. Biological Limitations. COnflict resolution as you stated.

Perhaps you have trouble making a convincing argument on the difference between homogeneity and balance because you go back to the sports example. You may want to refine.

 

[Mournblade94]

The *tagonist terms are from Greek drama. sports may have adopted them for some use, but RPGs got them from literature.

Your a NINJA!!!

 

[billd91]

You do realize that terms you would normally use to describe conflict like protagonist and antagonist are actually sports terms. Also, sports are the simplest example of what actually does occur in RPG's. There really isn't all that much different from running a sports game than fighting the big bad besides how the conflict gets resolved.

You're right, in some ways it's not that different. On the other hand, who knows that they play different roles better than the athlete? Do the linemen know they'll get far less glory than their quarterback for a win? Yes, they do. They know they aren't the primary offensive player on their team. Do the fielders realize that their best single defensive weapon is their pitcher? Yes, they do. And they'll typically work very hard to protect a pitcher's ongoing no-hitter even though they know only the pitcher will be remembered for it even if they make a brilliant defensive play.

Athletes know that there isn't balance among them because of the different roles they play on the team.

 

[technoextreme]

No actually, sports adopted those terms. They did not originate there. You did realize this didn't you? (see how that last line sounds?)
Before you get snarky make sure what you are saying holds weight please.

I've looked it up in multiple dictionaries. I'm not only snarky but I'm right.

 

[Dannager]

I beg to differ. Balance between players is not desirable. I want my teams players to be maxed out sports-heroes and the other teams players to be suboptimal. Players clearly are not balanced. Which is why some are payed more than others.

I'm so glad you mentioned this.

Yes, fans of Team X want Team X to be made of nothing but awesome dudes. But fans of Team X don't make the rules. The league makes the rules. And the league implements rules designed to make sure that a team's players aren't out of hand - for instance, most leagues have limits on the total salaries they're able to pay out (go over the limit and face a fine), and every league has rules and regulations on substance abuse above and beyond the legal system (for an example of a sports league trying to keep players balanced against one another, look at their reaction to steroid abuse in baseball a few years back).

I want the rules for interaction between the teams to be equitable. But player balance, not so much. I prefer my team to win more than half the time and a team that can pull off a win every time is not an unpleasant prospect.

As a fan of that team, yes.

As a member of the rules committee for the league? Not so much.

 

[Dannager]

Why are competitive board games even relevant in a discussion of interplayer balance in RPGs? The players aren't competing with each other. They're competing with challenges set up by the referee.

Because all games benefit from a certain level of balance, competitive or "cooperative" (and let's not forget, even in cooperative games there is still something serving as an adversary). Furthermore, it behooves the designers of a cooperative game to balance it such that a certain type of character does not consistently outshine another type of character.