Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Players: What would you be playing/buying if PF didn't exist.

[billd91]

To be fair to Peter, he was gone by the time either statement was made to me.

Oh, the bulk of my suspicion falls on changing leadership. No worries about that. Peter and company saved TSR's bacon and kept D&D from being tied up in litigation. He provided his good intentions as a fan of the game, as far as I'm concerned. I was just trying to leave room to not assume too much about the change in leadership since I don't have any hard info to back up my suspicions.

 

[innerdude]

Well all products released by for-profit companies are released to "sell more units." Not sure how 4e is any different. They created and sold 4e because they thought they could make more money than what they were making on 3.5. Next is being developed because they think they can make more money with it than with 4e. It's how business works.

True. Absolutely true.

However --- There are companies out there that are committed to producing an outstanding product, and then letting the chips fall where they may. In most cases, outstanding product sells, period.

From my very first impressions of picking up the 4e PHB off a Barnes and Noble shelf, it felt like this was a product that was primarily interested in pushing more units in sales, instead of really being a "good RPG product." If anyone actually happened to LIKE it, well, that was just gravy.

Even most rational 4e fans will admit that the original 4e "core three" were hardly a complete product.

Basically you need PHB 1 and 2, Martial Power, Arcane Power, DMG 1 and 2, and all three monster manuals to really have the "4e experience" that works.

Again, purely my opinion of course. But in the Age of the Consumer, the days putting out mediocre product and then still expecting to sell the heck out of it through massive marketing are over. And to me, that description fits 4e to a "T."

 

[pemerton]

From my very first impressions of picking up the 4e PHB off a Barnes and Noble shelf, it felt like this was a product that was primarily interested in pushing more units in sales, instead of really being a "good RPG product." If anyone actually happened to LIKE it, well, that was just gravy.

Even most rational 4e fans will admit that the original 4e "core three" were hardly a complete product.

Basically you need PHB 1 and 2, Martial Power, Arcane Power, DMG 1 and 2, and all three monster manuals to really have the "4e experience" that works.

I'll bite.

I bought the 4e core three because, based on the preview discussions, they sounded to me like a good RPG. And they dlivered on that, at least through heroic tier. (The damage issue only comes noticeably to light at paragon.) Yes, it was obvious that there was more splat in the pipeline - that's been the core of D&D publishing since 2nd ed AD&D - but I thought it was a playable game that was superior for my purposes to any earlier version of D&D, and to a number of competing fantasy RPGs (eg I was planning to start a HARP campaign, but when 4e came out went with that instead).

 

[Weather Report]

I'll bite.

Please stop biting, it's obvious why you do.

 

[pemerton]

Please stop biting, it's obvious why you do.

You mean because it's a message board? Some people post messages, others post messages in reply.

 

[MortalPlague]

Please stop biting, it's obvious why you do.

I didn't think pemerton was out of line with his post. People are allowed to like 4th Edition, right? It's not like he was bashing other posters or systems in the process.

 

[Starfox]

I didn't think pemerton was out of line with his post. People are allowed to like 4th Edition, right? It's not like he was bashing other posters or systems in the process.

Read both Permerton and Weather Report as friendly banter.

 

[Imaro]

I'll bite.

I bought the 4e core three because, based on the preview discussions, they sounded to me like a good RPG. And they dlivered on that, at least through heroic tier. (The damage issue only comes noticeably to light at paragon.) Yes, it was obvious that there was more splat in the pipeline - that's been the core of D&D publishing since 2nd ed AD&D - but I thought it was a playable game that was superior for my purposes to any earlier version of D&D, and to a number of competing fantasy RPGs (eg I was planning to start a HARP campaign, but when 4e came out went with that instead).

I think one of the differences from previous editions was that the design team admitted that they purposefully held back elements they knew many of their customers expected to be in the first 3 corebooks in order to drive supplement sales. I think the fact that this was a calculated move by WotC... left a sour taste in some gamer's mouths.

I also think there were other issues with the mechanics of the game like the stealth rules, and the skill challenge DC's/structure that weren't up to snuff upon release and went through various incarnations/revisions in various books.

 

[Starfox]

I also think there were other issues with the mechanics of the game like the stealth rules, and the skill challenge DC's/structure that weren't up to snuff upon release and went through various incarnations/revisions in various books.

To be fair, the 4E stealth rules ended up a lot more clear than those of Pathfinder.

 

[MortalPlague]

Read both Permerton and Weather Report as friendly banter.

Heh. I would have picked that up, but my snarky banter detector is in the shop. I'll have it back and working soon.