Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder sales

[Pentius]

All this banter back and forth about PATHFINDER and 4e is futile.

True.

I thought I heard they are either turning D&D into a boardgame or 5th edition anyways.

False. D&D boardgames exist, and they'll probably put out more, but that doesn't meant the RPG is going away. And 5e remains to even be announced, it is at closest years away.

The reason why PATHFINDER players spurn 4e is because they used to be 3rd edition D&D players and feel left in the dust by a company who they invested alot of time and money in. You can't blame PATHFINDER players for letting WOTC know how they feel. Its called feedback. Or backlash, from a PATHFINDER player's point of view. Comes with the territory when a drastic change is made that effects so many gamers.

There's a big difference between voicing your opinions and feedback to WotC, and coming on a non-WotC message board and talking about how it makes you happy to see 4e on the decline. There are games I don't like, too, but I'm not cheering at the thought of them failing.

The title of this post was PATHFINDER sales.........Dannager are you just going around looking for a fight??

 

[Dannager]

All this banter back and forth about PATHFINDER and 4e is futile.

You say that now.

I thought I heard they are either turning D&D into a boardgame or 5th edition anyways.

Nope. Either your sources suck or you have drastically misinterpreted something you heard from a reliable source.

The reason why PATHFINDER players spurn 4e is because they used to be 3rd edition D&D players and feel left in the dust by a company who they invested alot of time and money in. You can't blame PATHFINDER players for letting WOTC know how they feel. Its called feedback.

I certainly can blame people for behaving poorly.

But what you do isn't feedback. It's the equivalent of high school cheerleading, with a little bit of spitting on the other team whenever one of their players gets injured thrown in for good measure.

Or backlash, from a PATHFINDER player's point of view. Comes with the territory when a drastic change is made that effects so many gamers.

That doesn't excuse your behavior in the slightest.

The title of this post was PATHFINDER sales.........Dannager are you just going around looking for a fight??

Hardly. And you conveniently left out the fact that the thread itself is about someone taking the edition wars into real-life in a bookstore and making Pathfinder sound like it's doing way better than we can reasonably surmise. This isn't another thread to celebrate Pathfinder's success; we have those already.

Oh, and granting others experience points is not an okay way to share thoughts like "4e blew the big one" or "Eat it 4th edition!!!"

 

[prosfilaes]

I wasn't attacking "them" for anything more than failing to call the poster in question out for his poor behavior. When 4e fans chide Pathfinder fans for poor behavior, very little gets accomplished because they're already against 4e fans.

Okay. So stop chiding Pathfinder fans for poor behavior, whether it be one, or unjustifiably all.

making Pathfinder sound like it's doing way better than we can reasonably surmise.

Reasonably, in this case, meaning that you throw out evidence you don't like, and don't throw out other evidence of similar or lesser quality because you accept what it shows. If you accept an unbiased survey, not an unreasonable thing to do, you get the conclusion given at the start of this thread.

 

[Dannager]

Okay. So stop chiding Pathfinder fans for poor behavior

No. Not until people from the Pathfinder community step up to the plate and decide to start cleaning out their own trash.

Reasonably, in this case, meaning that you throw out evidence you don't like,

Evidence is given the weight it deserves. You simply don't like the weight I give your favorite evidence.

and don't throw out other evidence of similar or lesser quality because you accept what it shows.

If you say so.

If you accept an unbiased survey, not an unreasonable thing to do, you get the conclusion given at the start of this thread.

For someone like myself with a background in stats, polling, and cognitive bias, the survey you cite is problematic for a host of reasons. To my mind, accepting its conclusions as representative of the entire industry is unreasonable.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Only for a little while, and very intermittently thereafter:

Sep 2009: 7972
Oct 2009: 14392
Nov 2009: 18911
Dec 2009: 21570
Jan 2010: 23816
Feb 2010: 26101
...
Jul 2010: 35997
...
Aug 2011: 59750

Anyone have the numbers for Dragon and Dungeon magazines to compare? (Combine the two, since DDi serves as both.)

I would be willing to bet that DDi is hitting a much larger audience than the print versions did at their peaks.

Online services are convenient, if nothing else. Having a stranglehold on electronic aids doesn't hurt the numbers either.

The Auld Grump - hey, if DDi supported Pathfinder then I'd subscribe!

 

[MerricB]

Anyone have the numbers for Dragon and Dungeon magazines to compare?

Here you go:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/308250-how-many-people-subscribe-d-d-stuff.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...gazines-numbers-tell-story-5.html#post3821193

Cheers!

 

[Pentius]

Anyone have the numbers for Dragon and Dungeon magazines to compare? (Combine the two, since DDi serves as both.)

I would be willing to bet that DDi is hitting a much larger audience than the print versions did at their peaks.

Online services are convenient, if nothing else. Having a stranglehold on electronic aids doesn't hurt the numbers either.

The Auld Grump - hey, if DDi supported Pathfinder then I'd subscribe!

Definitely. I've been subscribing to DDi of late, but there's no way I'd be using it if it were still print mags. I treasure my remaining issues of Dragon from the old days, but it's just not a format that I like to use at the table.

 

[prosfilaes]

No. Not until people from the Pathfinder community step up to the plate and decide to start cleaning out their own trash.

So you're calling other ENWorld members trash? Nice.

You're doing something that obviously annoys other people, and you yourself admit is ineffectual, that makes ENWorld a less nice place to be.

Evidence is given the weight it deserves.

And a lack of evidence, like the lack you've given, should be given no weight at all.

 

[Dannager]

So you're calling other ENWorld members trash? Nice.

I'm calling some of the things certain members say trash.

But sure, continue interpreting my words in the least charitable light possible. That's how civil discussion is conducted. I'm having some serious issues with the way you choose to carry yourself in debates, prosfilaes. I make a concerted effort to remain civil, and to give others the benefit of the doubt. I ask that others do the same.

You're doing something that obviously annoys other people,

Which, frankly, isn't a problem for me. If they're annoyed by having their poor behavior pointed out (or having the poor behavior of their tolerated peers pointed out) I can't help but see that as a good thing.

and you yourself admit is ineffectual, that makes ENWorld a less nice place to be.

Largely ineffectual, but not totally. Sometimes it gets the person to reexamine their behavior and alter it. But certainly not as often as if the reprimand came from someone on their "side" (and trust me, the sort of person I'm reprimanding absolutely sees this as an issue of "sides").

And a lack of evidence, like the lack you've given, should be given no weight at all.

You're absolutely free to give the no-evidence that I've provided you with zero weight.

Enjoy!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Here you go:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/308250-how-many-people-subscribe-d-d-stuff.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...gazines-numbers-tell-story-5.html#post3821193

Cheers!

Hmmm, even without the Dungeon information that is a lot closer than I expected. DDi is doing well, but not as much better than I thought that it was.

I wonder if they could increase profit by 'leasing space' to their competition. Not the programming end, just the hosting. They already have the infrastructure in place....

The Auld Grump, just a pipe dream, I know....