kingpaul
First Post
PCGen and its sponsor Silven Publishing are pleased to announce the release of PCGen 5.11.12 beta (release notes).
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PCGen 5.11.12 beta released
- Thread starter kingpaul
- Start date
iwarrior-poet
Explorer
Any thoughts on when PCGen will incorporate a GUI based Prestige Class editor, Feat Editor---and also be lickety-split quick when loaded with 8+ sources?
mosat
First Post
iwarrior-poet said:
The built in List Editors allow you to add you own classes and feats (as well as other objects) so that is already incorporated. As for speed the coders are making improvements all the time, I just noticed a drop in the start up time between 5.11.11 and 5.11.12 myself. If I set the preferences to load sources at start up (which loads the sets you had last time you quit) my start up time is 48 seconds. That's with 5.11.12 with the full RSRD and 8 fairly hefty sources on an iMac 1.8mh G5. You might not call that lickety-split quick but it's also not 'go brew a cup of coffee' slow
iwarrior-poet
Explorer
Appreciate the response, but I am NOT interested in creating my own .lst files. That is why asked about it coming from the GUI.
iwarrior-poet
Explorer
Well... I believe I tried it once, and found the interface to be very confusing. Something simplified like a "Create Custom Prestige Class" button or a "Create Custom Feat" button with some wizard help would be a great addition. Fairly certain I have seen similar functionality in other digital aids.
iwarrior-poet said:
The BoD recognizes that it needs to address the roadmap, and that will happen in a future meeting. It was deferred until we went beta in the 5.11/5.12 cycle in order to avoid distraction; however, I do not believe a date has been set for that discussion.
While there is no official roadmap, let me address my **personal opinion** on next steps and specifically the editors.
I believe in heavily tested code. While the unit tests are not publicly available, my RPG-MapGen code has approximately 95% unit test code coverage. (though why I keep plugging a half-dead, half-completed project is beyond me). Thus, with respect to PCGen, I believe that a robust editor is a demonstration of a robust I/O system. This is because the non-UI code that supports the editor can be used as part of a test strategy of the application (specifically the I/O subsystem).
For those who are familiar with how PCGen imports files, there are Text (LST) files that contain Tokens that define the different objects (e.g. "SA:Monkey Hold" is an "SA" token that will add a Special Ability called "Monkey Hold" to the item defined on the line in which the token appears).
To me, part of ensuring a token is correctly parsed is the ability to do a "round robin" test to ensure that one can perform:
LST file -> internal structure -> LST file copy -> internal structure copy
...in order to ensure that the import from LST and output to LST are internally consistent (by testing equality of the copies to the originals). "Proving" correct behavior is much easier if one can assume the behavior is internally consistent.
Toward this end, for anyone who has looked at the PCGen CDOM code branch, you'll note that most of the tokens have an unparse() method that allows them to be converted from the internal data structure back out to an LST Token. Those that do not yet have an unparse() method are incomplete - those are future development efforts. Many of those that are complete already possess near complete unit test code coverage for what can be achieved with parse() and unparse() alone.
This isn't a complete solution; a quick counter-example to solely using uparse() to recreate LST files are the following two lines; which could be in two separate Feat.lst files:
FeatFoo <tab> SA:Monkey Hold
FeatFoo.MOD <tab> SA:.CLEAR
This should make one realize that another layer on top of unparse needs to be tracking the source and deltas between two LST files. This has not yet been built. I believe the design of this is in the CDOM architecture proposal document; however, I need to double check that and may have to release a new version in order to capture that design.
So to spell out what I consider to be the relevant steps of the token changes to build a new I/O system and editor:
(0) Prerequisite work: Complete conversion of CHOOSE to the new token format as part of the 5.13 Alpha cycle, as a prerequisite to properly parsing CHOOSE tokens. Also find any other token conversions and drive inclusion in the 5.13 cycle.
(1) Demonstrate round-robin testing of ALL tokens (this guarantees some level of integrity, and since it also creates a baseline of token parsing, allows early testing of CDOM compatibility for anyone who wants it). This is approximately 60% done today (since much of this can be done independently of (0) above.
(2) Demonstrate round-robin testing of entire PCC/LST file sets (this guarantees integrity across .CLEARs, .MODs, etc. and actually completes most of the non-UI portion of an editor)
(3a) Build a GUI for the editor. I haven't gone too far down this path of thought, but it at least can be done independently of the core changes (which would be a steps 3b and on... not defined here).
Someday.
I'm not even in a position to define a schedule for the editor (above), which are steps 1-3 of 6 or 7 steps required to complete conversion to a new core... which isn't even officially on the roadmap. While there is code in a branch, it is officially a proposal. Given the tremendous amounts of uncertainty involved, I don't believe a reliable statement can be made on this issue.
TheYeti1775
Adventurer
iwarrior-poet said:
Gotta admit that would be handy.
Though I'm making decent headway into making up my Valus stuff into my copy. But that is all fairly easy stuff that most is taken care of with a template creation or copying and modifying an existing race.
Now if they ever get Dawnforge done out of Alpha, I'll be on it like white on rice.
I think though what iwarrior-poet wants is a small wizard to walk thourgh vice just a bunch of tabs to click around. Am I right on that iWP?
Main improvement I would like to see, is on the Advanced Tab. You have a drop down list for all the Bonus/whatever, what I would like is some quick reference with what goes with it. Yes I know check the documentation, but that can be a pretty slow and tedious ordeal at times. It was quicker for me to go look up a similar feat one time and then go back to that template I was creating to add in the code for a +1 to that save then it was for me to attempt going through the Documentation. Just a thought. Though I can work with it now, but it would be a nice to have of something for such as Bonus, then a second drop down has the ones it can be used for. It would be most helpful for the newbies to PCGen and not the ones that dream of LST files like you KP.
Yeti
iwarrior-poet
Explorer
TheYeti1775 said:
Yep.
iwarrior-poet said:
Then go use the other Digital Aids !!
You are rude and abusive. I have followed your antics here, on the CMP boards the WotC boards, and on the Yahoo lists. Folks try and help and you SCREAM that you are not a coder and DEMAND that they tell you keystroke by keystroke how to do something.
PCGen is an all volunteer, open source project and people work on what they want. It is like herding cats, you hope that the BoD influences folks in an overall good direction but there is no guarantee. If you were less annoying, folks over there might take you seriously, but since you won't, they probably won't either.
