PCGen 5.11.12 beta released

[iwarrior-poet]

You are rude and abusive. I have followed your antics here, on the CMP boards the WotC boards, and on the Yahoo lists. Folks try and help and you SCREAM that you are not a coder and DEMAND that they tell you keystroke by keystroke how to do something.

Oooo!!! My very first flat out flame! Hmmm... Let's count the inaccuracies:
I have never been on the Yahoo lists
I have never demanded anything, just asked for customer support from CMP or suggestions from other
Since I am not a coder, doesn't it make sense I would need directions keystroke for keystroke? Especially since the difference between | and \ could make a huge difference?
I challenge you to explain how anything that you quoted from my last post is rude or abusive.

 

[thpr]

Since I am not a coder, doesn't it make sense I would need directions keystroke for keystroke?

Not necessarily. You're making the issue very black and white... though perhaps one should interpret it simply as drama, rather than a literal statement. Your past responses here on ENWorld don't imply a "keystroke-by-keystroke description is required" level of stupidity. Lack of interest in learning, perhaps, but that's "want directions" not "need directions".

To be precise, you *have* been critical of PCGen in at least three other threads (Looking for a simpler PC Gen..., On the State of Digital Aids for D+D/D20/OGL and CMP: On its way out?). Churlish, as you put it, if my memory serves.

You have given us feedback, and you have been rather clear that you are not a programmer and editing LST files is not something you are interested in. So be it. I'm okay with that. I do care about improving PCGen, I believe we are making progress improving PCGen (even if occasionally slow, since it is personal-time volunteer work) and I do have a thick enough skin to take criticism (although it's far more likely to get action if it's constructive).

What I'm enormously disappointed about is that I have:
(1) Previously asked whether you would be willing to help be an alpha tester of a GUI based editor for PCGen when it is available
and now
(2) Specifically responded to your questions to the best of my ability with respect to the pathway from our current system to a new GUI editor

The response I get from you is *DEAD SILENCE*. I'm not sure it rises to rude, but I *WILL* say I'm disappointed. Your behavior implies that you are not willing to spend *any* time, even if it includes things you *can* do for PCGen... like testing of new components when we release them... or simply saying "Thanks" when we provide an honest assessment and update of where we are.

So, please, help me understand. Given the lack of response from you, I get the impression the investment of my time is not valuable to you. Is that the correct interpretation? Should I be spending my time elsewhere instead of interacting with the PCGen community to help them understand our choices and priorities?

 

[schporto]

and also be lickety-split quick when loaded with 8+ sources?

Just curious - I find it to be very quick right now with 11 sources. A few short questions:
1. What kind of hardware are you running on? Processor, and memory I mean.
2. Do you have any anti-virus program running? If so which?
3. Under Settings, Prefrences, PCGen, Equipment do you have any options under "Automatically Generate Equipment" checked?

My reason is that
1. Less memory will result in a much slower run.
2. I have found McAfee in particular is evil. If I run _any_ java program McAfee pegs out at 100% of the processor and will not allow anything to run until it has checked every java file and every file that is associated with the program being run. This can cause one horrendous delay.
3. Having those options can also cause the system to crawl.
-cpd

 

[iwarrior-poet]

Not necessarily. You're making the issue very black and white... though perhaps one should interpret it simply as drama, rather than a literal statement. Your past responses here on ENWorld don't imply a "keystroke-by-keystroke description is required" level of stupidity. Lack of interest in learning, perhaps, but that's "want directions" not "need directions".

To be precise, you *have* been critical of PCGen in at least three other threads (Looking for a simpler PC Gen..., On the State of Digital Aids for D+D/D20/OGL and CMP: On its way out?). Churlish, as you put it, if my memory serves.

You have given us feedback, and you have been rather clear that you are not a programmer and editing LST files is not something you are interested in. So be it. I'm okay with that. I do care about improving PCGen, I believe we are making progress improving PCGen (even if occasionally slow, since it is personal-time volunteer work) and I do have a thick enough skin to take criticism (although it's far more likely to get action if it's constructive).

What I'm enormously disappointed about is that I have:
(1) Previously asked whether you would be willing to help be an alpha tester of a GUI based editor for PCGen when it is available
and now
(2) Specifically responded to your questions to the best of my ability with respect to the pathway from our current system to a new GUI editor

The response I get from you is *DEAD SILENCE*. I'm not sure it rises to rude, but I *WILL* say I'm disappointed. Your behavior implies that you are not willing to spend *any* time, even if it includes things you *can* do for PCGen... like testing of new components when we release them... or simply saying "Thanks" when we provide an honest assessment and update of where we are.

So, please, help me understand. Given the lack of response from you, I get the impression the investment of my time is not valuable to you. Is that the correct interpretation? Should I be spending my time elsewhere instead of interacting with the PCGen community to help them understand our choices and priorities?

Lots o' points to address here...
My responses on ENWorld may have not asked for keystroke by keystroke, but my responses on CMP boards did. I have $200+ of CMP datasets, and just getting Forgotten Realms stuff to work with everything else took a bit of .lst fidgeting. I did it once, and it was painful (had to redo it several times)---gave me a bad taste for any future efforts.

Although most of my criticism has been pointed at CMP, I am aware that some of it has spilled over onto PCGen. The complex relationship between CMP datasets, PCGen, and WotC has been very, very frustrating at times. I go over to CMP and say, "I am having problems running these datasets... they say, "go talk to PCGen guys" or "WoTC won't let us do that". So I go over to PCGen (mostly here or at WoTC boards) and say "Can PCGen do this (insert request)? If not, does it plan to?" I usually get the response, "No, but you can do it yourself by..." If I had wanted to learn how to create .lst files I wouldn't have spent my money on CMP files.

That being said, I have tremendous respect for PCGen. You are offering a free and very useful service. I am just frustrated that I have spend a lot of money on something that is not functioning nearly as well as I had hoped.

I do appreciate your (and King Paul's) responses/updates on PCGen, which is I why initially responded to this posting---just asking for more info.

Finally, I am certainly interested in being a GUI tester---so long as it will not jeopardize the version of PCGen I am currently running (or my somewhat fragile computer as a whole).

 

[iwarrior-poet]

Just curious - I find it to be very quick right now with 11 sources. A few short questions:
1. What kind of hardware are you running on? Processor, and memory I mean.
2. Do you have any anti-virus program running? If so which?
3. Under Settings, Prefrences, PCGen, Equipment do you have any options under "Automatically Generate Equipment" checked?

My reason is that
1. Less memory will result in a much slower run.
2. I have found McAfee in particular is evil. If I run _any_ java program McAfee pegs out at 100% of the processor and will not allow anything to run until it has checked every java file and every file that is associated with the program being run. This can cause one horrendous delay.
3. Having those options can also cause the system to crawl.
-cpd

1. I am running a 2.8ghz Pentium 4 with 1gig of ram.
2. I have Zonelabs security suite running
3. No, learned that lesson awhile ago

 

[thpr]

That being said, I have tremendous respect for PCGen. You are offering a free and very useful service. I am just frustrated that I have spend a lot of money on something that is not functioning nearly as well as I had hoped.

Understood. Since I have no relationship with CMP, and do not have their datasets, I can't speak much to the CMP items. Can't help much on compatibility/interaction either.

I do appreciate your (and King Paul's) responses/updates on PCGen, which is I why initially responded to this posting---just asking for more info.

Finally, I am certainly interested in being a GUI tester---so long as it will not jeopardize the version of PCGen I am currently running (or my somewhat fragile computer as a whole).

Thanks. As we get closer, I'll let you know.

The editor would be a stand-alone Java program at first, and would be very careful *not* to corrupt what you already have. In fact, it will not be compatible with PCGen 5.10, so accidentally mixing with that version would be impossible. I'll speak more to the details once it's more concrete.

 

[jujutsunerd]

Understood. Since I have no relationship with CMP, and do not have their datasets, I can't speak much to the CMP items. Can't help much on compatibility/interaction either.

As an (on and off, mostly off pcgen developer who has most CMP datasets (I prefer not to think about how much that cost...) I can assure you that the CMP files remaining useful is quite high on at least my priority list. Come <mumble> or high water, those files *will* keep working.

Thankfully (being a lazy git I haven't had to do much to keep them working so far during the 5.11 betas, I get lots of warnings, but few real problems. (And the problems I've had appear to be known to Barak, so whenever CMP releases an update my local fixes will be unneccessary.)

I also know a few other code and data monkeys have a lot of CMP files, so I expect that out of sheer self-interest there won't be many problems switching to 5.12. Whether 6.0 (when thpr adds an actual architecture to the code will be more troublesome remains to be seen.

Of course, from what I've read on the CMP site, the files most likely won't be officially supported on 5.12. But, as I said, I don't foresee any real problems. (If nothing else, one of my campaigns allows every wotc book, meaning that I load them all, so any problems would be quickly visible to me, encouraging me to get things resolved somehow. Whether that is by writing an update script, reporting to Barak or something else entirely.)

/Jonas

 

[TheYeti1775]

Thankfully (being a lazy git I haven't had to do much to keep them working so far during the 5.11 betas, I get lots of warnings, but few real problems. (And the problems I've had appear to be known to Barak, so whenever CMP releases an update my local fixes will be unneccessary.)

Are they still allowed to give updates to datasets they created before the loss of license? Great if they are.

I also know a few other code and data monkeys have a lot of CMP files, so I expect that out of sheer self-interest there won't be many problems switching to 5.12. Whether 6.0 (when thpr adds an actual architecture to the code will be more troublesome remains to be seen.

Of course, from what I've read on the CMP site, the files most likely won't be officially supported on 5.12. But, as I said, I don't foresee any real problems. (If nothing else, one of my campaigns allows every wotc book, meaning that I load them all, so any problems would be quickly visible to me, encouraging me to get things resolved somehow. Whether that is by writing an update script, reporting to Barak or something else entirely.)

/Jonas

Would it be too much to ask for an import feature for say datasets from 5.10, to whatever they have at v6? Mainly it isn't so much an issue just for the CMP products, but for everyone of us that is entering a 'crap load' of personally entered Races/Classes/Equipment/Feat/ etc......

If it can convert it yippie even better. But I would be happy with it being able to read it even if it slows it down.

Just my 2 coppers.

Yeti

 

[kingpaul]

Are they still allowed to give updates to datasets they created before the loss of license? Great if they are.

IIRC, they can continue to provide updates until 11/30/08, when the 2 years expire their contract's expiration.

 

[TheYeti1775]

IIRC, they can continue to provide updates until 11/30/08, when the 2 years expire their contract's expiration.

Well thats good news then, I didn't know.

But since I got your attention KP, is there anyway to hide feats(or anything for that matter) you don't qualify for yet as you scroll through the list? (All the red ones) I did the Pre-Req tree view but still there are a lot outside of trees that would make it nicer visually. Nothing important enough for a formal request just something to think on if it is easily done.

But thanks on that good news.

Yeti