PCs selling crafted items.

[Runestar]

Do this 3 or 4 times and he made less gold and is a level behind.

Aren't we forgetting the self-correcting nature of xp gain in 3.5? If you are lower lv than the rest of the party, you get more xp from any given encounter. Which means that it is actually advantageous for the wizard or party crafter (eg: warlock or artificer) to consistently stay 1 lv behind the rest of the other PCs, as this will net him more xp (which can in turn be used to craft even more gear), and this results in a sort of vicious cycle.

If you have time, head over to the CO boards on the gleemax forums and search for a thread called "Riding the gravy train". It has the math to back this up.

 

[hornedturtle]

But if he stays a level behind dosen't that increase his chances of getting killed?

 

[irdeggman]

Aren't we forgetting the self-correcting nature of xp gain in 3.5? If you are lower lv than the rest of the party, you get more xp from any given encounter. Which means that it is actually advantageous for the wizard or party crafter (eg: warlock or artificer) to consistently stay 1 lv behind the rest of the other PCs, as this will net him more xp (which can in turn be used to craft even more gear), and this results in a sort of vicious cycle.

If you have time, head over to the CO boards on the gleemax forums and search for a thread called "Riding the gravy train". It has the math to back this up.

True enough (except for point about lower level characters bing less likely to survive an encounter) - but the key is where did the adventuring PCs go?

If it is all about short adventure hops around a set town then sure.

But what about those cross-country trips where they won't be back for a very, very long time?

The adventuring PCs aren't going to be back for several months (at the least) and will have gone up 3+ levels in the mean time. What happens to the PC staying behind trying to make some extra coin then? Being 3+ level behind the rest of the group is almost a sure ticket to get killed in most even CR encounters.

The big "leveler" here is the time lost to create the items in the first place. If that is managed appropriately then it is no where as lucrative (or tempting) for the player.

 

[Runestar]

How is levelling handled in your games? Do you get xp after every encounter, or is xp allocated in 1 giant block after the campaign arc? I fail to see how you can end up lagging by up to 3 levels. Though of course, at lv17+, you can create magic items via wish, which takes just a standard action, rather than the few months needed for an item costing 100,000+ gp.

 

[Dog Moon]

But if he stays a level behind dosen't that increase his chances of getting killed?

If he's only one level behind, it doesn't hurt too bad. More than that, however, and it starts to get a little painful.

 

[irdeggman]

How is levelling handled in your games? Do you get xp after every encounter, or is xp allocated in 1 giant block after the campaign arc? I fail to see how you can end up lagging by up to 3 levels. Though of course, at lv17+, you can create magic items via wish, which takes just a standard action, rather than the few months needed for an item costing 100,000+ gp.

I award as the group rests (i.e., as the adventure progresses) - not in one chunk.

But as for how it is possible to lag 3 levels behind - look at an one of the Adventure Paths.

For one of the (usually 10-12 different adventures) the advancement is supposed to around 3 levels.

If the PC missed the opportunity to "leave" with the PCs then he's missed the opportunity to particiapte in that adventure - barring sudden DM insertion via fiat into the middle of the adventure.

That is what my point was about. Dark Sun was notorious for adventures taking PCs across great expanses before returning "home".

If, as I said, your group does individual adventures that take short periods of time and always have the PCs be able to return "home" then that is a completely different situation.

 

[irdeggman]

If he's only one level behind, it doesn't hurt too bad. More than that, however, and it starts to get a little painful.

Worse at lower levels and at "key" ones for spellcasters.

A 4th level wizard with a group of 5th levels is lacking in substantial power due to the spell level he is behind (3rd level spells are one the big power up levels for spell casters).

He also still is only using d4 for hit die - which means he needs as much "help" to survive as he can get since one key critical hit can really ruin his day.

 

[Runestar]

If, as I said, your group does individual adventures that take short periods of time and always have the PCs be able to return "home" then that is a completely different situation.

I don't even see why that is necessary. You can just say "I spend 6 months crafting a staff of power", and then the whole party goes adventuring on that new campaign. This whole process takes just a few seconds, so I don't see what incentive there is for the rest of the party to have/want to adventure without the wizard.

 

[green slime]

I don't even see why that is necessary. You can just say "I spend 6 months crafting a staff of power", and then the whole party goes adventuring on that new campaign. This whole process takes just a few seconds, so I don't see what incentive there is for the rest of the party to have/want to adventure without the wizard.

It sort of depends on what else happens in the multiverse while the wizard is stuck in his tower muttering over esoteric carvings.

If the fighter's wife gets kidnapped two weeks into the creation, is he going to say "Well, the wizard needs another 5½ months to finish his fine dohickey staff. I'm sure Sarah wouldn't mind waiting around...." Probably not.



Life: Its what happens while you were making other plans.

 

[green slime]

not that it's come up lately, but one of my PCs has geared himself to begin crafting items for the rest of the party, as well as to perhaps earn a bonus source of income.

not that i'm overly worried, but from the looks of it, if he wants to craft an item worth 1000gp, he needs to pony up half of that, which is fine. then, should he chose to sell the item, i assume he gets full price, meaning that he more than made up for the original investment.

does this balance out in the long run? is the xp component supposed to keep people from abusing this? did i even get this process correct?

your thoughts please.

It generally isn't a problem unless you let it. You just have to be clear to the players that the game isn't Merchants & Shopkeepers. But that of course they can make a decent amount of cash according to their skills and feats if they want to during "off-hours". Just ask them what they are trying to do doing the off-peak hours, and examine their character sheets, and give them the details of how much they can earn per week. Like others have suggested, the really expensive stuff will be far more difficult to sell. Just follow the basic guidelines and apply some common sense, and everyone will have fun.