PC's trading in items

JoeGKushner said:
Well, it's not just gems or jewelry either. Fallen opponents have crossbows, longbows, different armor types, etc...

I'm also trying to encourage people to stop using charisma as a dump stat without realizing that there are consequences.
You can do it, but it could turn the group into rampaging destroyers of civilizations unless you weed out low charisma characters EARLY on in the low levels.

Town guards turn them away. Some PCs allowed in to some areas, while others are not. Weapons are confiscated by guards at the guards descresion. NPCs should be less helpfull, job offers are not offered, custom items they want get backlogged, any trouble they cause is sevearly punished by the law. And when you piss off the wrong person, they hire an assasin who is not going to have a second though about killing you in your sleep.

And those with high Charima scores who associate with those with low charima should enjoy curcumstance penaties to Charisma checks for hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Civilized life sucks when you have a low charisma.
 
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It's already come into play several times in terms of payment, offers, information gathering (using diplomaacy and intimidation for example), etc... but they're not freakishly bad in charisma terms. Let's see... two with 8, one with 6 (the elan with a -2 cha penalty), one with 14 and I haven't seen the rogue yet as that player was abscent from last week's game.

frankthedm said:
You can do it, but it could turn the group into rampaging destroyers of civilizations unless you weed out low charisma characters EARLY on in the low levels.

Town guards turn them away. Some PCs allowed in to some areas, while others are not. Weapons are confiscated by guards at the guards descresion. NPCs should be less helpfull, job offers are not offered, custom items they want get backlogged, any trouble they cause is sevearly punished by the law. And those with high Charima scores who associate with those with low charima should enjoy curcumstance penaties to Charisma checks for hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Civilized life sucks when you have a low charisma.
 


Vraille Darkfang said:
Sorry,

I just can't do this other than in 1-shots.

For Example:

PC 1 finds a 1,000 GP Ruby. He goes to town and sells it to a Gem Merchant for the Face Value (1,000 GP).

Several Week Pass.

PC 2 goes into town looking for a 1,000 GP Gem. Goes to above Gem Merchant. Mercahnt sells him the Ruby for 1,000 GP. Merchant makes 0 gold. I can't do that. It makes no sense. According to the RAW these merchants NEVER make a profit. That just doesn't happen. Merchants have to have a mark-up. That's a simple rule. I keep haggling to a minimum, but the PC's never get full market value for their items.

Take something valued at 1,000 dollars & take it to a pawn shop. See how much you get. Frequently that's what PC's are trying to do: liquidate assets. It's hard to get full value.

I'm aware of this & plan accordingly when I give out treasure.


WEll..... I think you're assuming some wrong things here. Take a ruby worth 1000 gp to a merchant, the merchant gives you "full value" (1000 gp). The merchant then combines it with other gems and some gold and increases the relative value of that gem by X% (where X is determined by his skill in the relative craft). Or he cuts that ruby to improve it's base value, maybe because it was previously uncut, or it was large and awkwardly cut and he cut it into several rubies of lesser value but with a total value of 1376 gp. Otherwise why is he buying it?

Now several months later the PC's go into town looking for a 1000 gp ruby. Well, the one they sold is already gone, but here's another one. THIS ruby originally came into the store from a different set of adventurers as a 750 gp ruby, but the merchant used his craft skill and improved it's base value, so now it's 1000 gp.

Net profit? 250gp from that ruby. 626 GP if you take both into consideration.

Now, if I take "something" worth 1000 dollars to a pawn shop, I think that I can get 1000 dollars if I plan it right. Of course, what I'll take with me is ten 100 dollar bills. And what I'll get is fifty twenty dollar bills. Well, I admit that this is assuming the pawn shop is a big enough one to handle that sort of transaction. But we can cut that by a factor of 10 and it becomes much more likely. Similiarly speaking, you have to find a merchant who's able to take that ruby and who has the cash you need.

But ruby's, and gems, and gold and plat and silver and copper... all these things are used as *currency* in the DnD world.

You aren't really taking the 1000 ruby that can't be improved to a gem merchant. You're taking it to a bank. And the bank will split that "1000 dollar bill" into "fifty 20 dollar bills". That's how banks operate. Often if it's something on that scale that's an "if you have an account with us" type of operation. On the other hand, on that scale it's also a "so you'd like to open an account?"

Vraille Darkfang said:
I'm aware of this & plan accordingly when I give out treasure.

Of course, in the end all "money" in the game, and indeed all items, all these things are imaginary and given out by the GM. As long as the GM is giving you a 1000 gp gem and intends on you only getting 500 GP from it, it's exactly the same as a GM who's giveing out a 500 GP gem and intends on you being able to get 500 GP from it.

The only difference there is that in the book they suggest that gems get full face value, because in the system they're imagining those items are used as currency. And really, in medieval times such items indeed were used as currency. Because some people NEED a "1000 dollar bill". Today we have them as checks and money orders, or simple electronic transfers. Without such things gems as currency is a necessary thing to keep the economy flowing properly.
 

A 100gp gem - you should get 100gp for. At worst, there should be a tiny fee for converting, much like you might charge for someone who wants to change silver pieces for gold or platinum.

A gem merchant can make money by cutting rough gems into finished gems.
In the real world of D&D there would be no such thing as a "100 gp" pearl because it would probably be worth less near the source (by the ocean) and much more across a desert, at the top of a mountain. And the gem merchant would make money by buying gems where they are cheap, at their source, and then transporting them and selling them where they are more expensive. I played a gem merchant character once, and I made money both by cutting gems and by buying and selling various gems in the course of our adventure travels.

This whole 50% standard nonsense just doesn't cut it, to coin a pun. Also, if a gem is worth 100 gp you DON'T try to cheat the owner of it by paying only half value, especially not if that is someone who is a professional killer (which is one way to think of adventurers) who could blast you out of existence with a mere thought.
 

Teflon Billy said:
We'd save that pearl for an Identify component I think :)

Nod. 100 gp pearl should never be sold off.

I don't care about the gems and jewels, so face value is what they get bought by the merchants for. PCs don't care what the retail value is.

For gear, it's normally sold for 50% of face value.

Magic items get 80%, and sell for 120%, but the getting from the merchant is "store credit" for anything more than potions (nobody has that kinda cash for an item that might not sell for months). The buying can be using store credit from turned in magic items, or cash. Ditto on the 125 gp fee for Identify spells.
 

The_Universe said:
The way I see it, PCs are not gem consumers, they are gem suppliers. As such, the value of the gem listed in the DMG is what a Gem merchant would pay to take it off their hands. Of course, if they wanted to buy a gem from that same gem merchant, they could expect to pay more than its listed value - a diplomacy check to bargain may make that markup higher or lower, depending on the level of success/failure.

I see it that way for a couple of reasons - Primarily, because that's how the core rules says it should be handled. Secondarily, I do it that way because while I have had PCs attempt to change gems to money innumerable times, I have had characters attempt to buy a gem a grand total of once, ever.

Nod.

That, or the currency exchange idea make sense to me, though there ought to be at least a small fee for currency trades, as in the real world. Does anyone actually make PC's pay to change out GP's from one kingdom for another kingdom's version? I really can't be troubled with that!
 

One fine campaign long ago after getting cheesed off by the whole "sell for half" rule my GM had, I had my character open up the ADVENTURERS EMPORIUM. We guaranteed to buy any and all items at 80% of their MSRP and sold them at 90%. So, in the example of the ruby, you would get 800gp and we would sell it to the next bidder for 900gp. Our shop was always stocked (because we were offering 10% discounts off everyone elses prices) and always had tons of goods (because we offered 30% more for your loot over the competitors).

After awhile you are making money off pretty much doing nothing but providing a warehouse to store stuff until someone else wants to pick it up.

Trying to do real world economics doesn't really work in DnD.

DS
 

Sabathius42 said:
One fine campaign long ago after getting cheesed off by the whole "sell for half" rule my GM had, I had my character open up the ADVENTURERS EMPORIUM. We guaranteed to buy any and all items at 80% of their MSRP and sold them at 90%. So, in the example of the ruby, you would get 800gp and we would sell it to the next bidder for 900gp. Our shop was always stocked (because we were offering 10% discounts off everyone elses prices) and always had tons of goods (because we offered 30% more for your loot over the competitors).

After awhile you are making money off pretty much doing nothing but providing a warehouse to store stuff until someone else wants to pick it up.

Trying to do real world economics doesn't really work in DnD.

DS

Good for you. And I think you just showed that real world economics DOES work in D&D. When you get right down to it, economics are really simple - you need to provide value for the money. If you are asking for too much or too little, you'll lose business.

While I wouldn't want to get into economic minutiae while playing D&D, one could learn some simple economics - giving yet another positive benefit to teaching your kids to game (as I'll do with my kids, though it will be a while - my firstborn just turned one month old, and I think right now she's not even to the point where she'd want to eat the dice).
 

JoeGKushner said:
Well, it's not just gems or jewelry either. Fallen opponents have crossbows, longbows, different armor types, etc


How do they carry all the extra gear ? Wouldn't they be more of a target with 2 or 3 extra set of armor and weapons strapped on their persons?
 

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