PC's trading in items

[TheAuldGrump]

Sorry,

I just can't do this other than in 1-shots.

For Example:

PC 1 finds a 1,000 GP Ruby. He goes to town and sells it to a Gem Merchant for the Face Value (1,000 GP).

Several Week Pass.

PC 2 goes into town looking for a 1,000 GP Gem. Goes to above Gem Merchant. Mercahnt sells him the Ruby for 1,000 GP. Merchant makes 0 gold. I can't do that. It makes no sense. According to the RAW these merchants NEVER make a profit. That just doesn't happen. Merchants have to have a mark-up. That's a simple rule. I keep haggling to a minimum, but the PC's never get full market value for their items.

Take something valued at 1,000 dollars & take it to a pawn shop. See how much you get. Frequently that's what PC's are trying to do: liquidate assets. It's hard to get full value.

I'm aware of this & plan accordingly when I give out treasure.

Or you reverse it - they sell the gem for the list price of 1000, then going to buy an equivelant gem would cost 2000 - that the price listed in the adventure is how much the characters can get for it, not its final market value.

There are few items in my game world that trade at face value for both the merchant and the customer - coins, letters of credit (which may decrease in value the further from one of the author's proctors the seller is), and indulgences (which increase in value the further from the point of issue the seller is). Everything else turns a profit for the merchant.

The Auld Grump

 

[Nightfall]

If we are talking normal sellable valulable items, I don't see why not get full price.

(Unless you're in Santurary IE Thieves World. THEN yes rip the PCs off!! )

Magic items...I like to cheat the PCs. A lot.

 

[demiurge1138]

The way I see it, PCs are not gem consumers, they are gem suppliers. As such, the value of the gem listed in the DMG is what a Gem merchant would pay to take it off their hands. Of course, if they wanted to buy a gem from that same gem merchant, they could expect to pay more than its listed value - a diplomacy check to bargain may make that markup higher or lower, depending on the level of success/failure.

I see it that way for a couple of reasons - Primarily, because that's how the core rules says it should be handled. Secondarily, I do it that way because while I have had PCs attempt to change gems to money innumerable times, I have had characters attempt to buy a gem a grand total of once, ever.

This man said what I was going to, except more eloquently. I don't want to get bogged down in fantasy economics (even when my players do). I want to let them kill monsters and save cities and explore and all that fun stuff.

Demiurge out.

 

[Nightfall]

Dem,

Agreed. If I wanted to be a gemologist, then I'd be concern. As it stands, I'm not.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

To me it seems quite simple - not. I would offer 31gp for the pearl.

Herremann's Convoluted Guide to Trading Goods TM

Appraise the Item
The buyer does an Appraise Check on the item. This gives for him or her at least the "true value" of the item as far as they see it. Let's say for the current "100gp pearl" example, the buyer values it at 80gp.

Factor in your Cut
The next consideration is what the buyer is going to do with it.
- If they are a wholesaler, they will want to get their cut which could be anywhere as much as a 100% increase on cost. So now the price of the "pearl" goes down to 40gp.
- If they are more an end user they will normally offer a little bit less than what they think it is worth (let's face it, they want to make a good buy). So this might take it down to let's say 70gp for the end-user.

Consider other Variables
Other things to consider include:
- How easy is the item to get or sell? This will always reduce the price if it is easy to get or the market is saturated. So for the wholesaler, as a 100gp is reasonably standard, he might reduce the cost even further to let's say 30gp.
- Are there time issues involved? So lets say the seller wants cash straight away. Depending upon whether the price so far is easily accounted for or not will determine whether the price goes down any further. So the buyer being non-fluid of funds because of the last idiot that sold him a "100gp pearl" works the price down even further to let's say 25gp.
- Does the buyer deal with and have good knowledge of these items? In other words, how well will they trust their original appraisal. If they are not familiar, they may hedge a little and be more cautious (this will also apply to the diplomacy check below). In the current circumstance, the dealer is not unfamiliar so holds his price.

And finally, comes the Diplomacy Check
Lastly is how far the buyer will go from their base price. If you work on Helpful and Friendly as giving more then you may have a margin of 25% or even 50% more. If it is neutral then the base price will be rigidly stuck to while lower (unfriendly or hostile) means the buyer will most likely recind or halve the offer.
In this case, the buyer might pay up to 25% overs - so in this case the 25gp item may go as high as about 31gp. (Because he likes the guy).

Either the seller will agree to this price or they won't. In this case the seller understanding the nature of selling stuff agrees to the 31gp for the item (as their own appraisal valued it at 60gp).

In this way, characters or NPC's with ridiculous Diplomacy scores will affect but not too greatly the outcome while in reality, it is the appraisal of the item that should have a greater determination on it's price. Note however, that the DM is the only one who knows the precise and true value. In this way, you can't have an item inflating or deflating off the market.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Nightfall]

Herr,

Eh I save the bartering for when it's a real low magic world and thus every gp counts.

 

[leporidae]

I dislike roleplaying haggling - it takes up too much time and energy while adding very little fun. Even requiring a skill roll can be a pain once transactions start getting complicated - i.e. several different characters selling a combination of personal and group treasure, while some are purchasing items either from a magic shop, or against their share of the group treasure...
It's just too much accounting and too little adventuring for my taste.

Though in a low magic, low treasure campaign it might be more important - though in that case I would never refer to things by their gp value, anything unusual or valuable would be described in a distinctive way. Giving a gp value ahead of time would complicate the party's recordkeeping without adding anything interesting to the world.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How do they carry all the extra gear ? Wouldn't they be more of a target with 2 or 3 extra set of armor and weapons strapped on their persons?

The benefits of having a character with 18 strength is that massive load that they can carry, and I've got two of them with it.

But yeah, it does make them nice targets but as they're already in a dungeon...

 

[haakon1]

One fine campaign long ago after getting cheesed off by the whole "sell for half" rule my GM had, I had my character open up the ADVENTURERS EMPORIUM. We guaranteed to buy any and all items at 80% of their MSRP and sold them at 90%. So, in the example of the ruby, you would get 800gp and we would sell it to the next bidder for 900gp. Our shop was always stocked (because we were offering 10% discounts off everyone elses prices) and always had tons of goods (because we offered 30% more for your loot over the competitors).

After awhile you are making money off pretty much doing nothing but providing a warehouse to store stuff until someone else wants to pick it up.

IMC, this little WalMart would be shut down hard by the Jeweler & Gemcutters Guild. And yes, they are closely aligned with the Greyhawk Thieves' Guild, who run the biggest and richest city on the planet, in conjunction with the Assassin's Guild.

DM's should never let an opportunity for adventure pass!

 

[LostSoul]

I eyeball it based on the place the PCs are selling it. In some hick town in the middle of the wilderness? Maybe they'll get a couple of chickens for it. In a metropolis where there is a market for luxury goods and magic item components? They'll get close to the market value.

Here's a question. When the PHB talks about a 100 gp pearl for Identify, does that mean a pearl with a market value of 100 gp, or a pearl that the Wizard pays 100 gp for? If market value, then when there is a glut of pearls on the market, do those material components previously purchased suddenly fail to power the Identify spell? Do items in D&D have a fixed value (15 gp can always buy you a longsword, no matter what the market looks like) or does the value respond to economic forces?