PDF Industry - How do we help it grow?

[Cergorach]

Wouldn't stat block changes on the fly run afoul of the difficulties in including OGC in normal programs? You need to make anything derived from open content (including the javascript that alters your statblocks) must be open content. How is that accomplished in a PDF?

Multiple plots sounds like a lot of work and the user will not see the extra work, they'll only see the path taken.

Notice none of Clark's conclusions involve programming.

I was thinking more like multiple documents that are a single product. One would be the concept book where the user would see all the options, you would select the option he likes/wants and a different document would then incorporate all of the options selected. The data would just be retrieved from a different document, so i don't think that would be a problem. The final document would be a setting/adventure customized to the wishes of the user and ready to print out with only the information desired by the user. You could even do it in chapters/parts, when the party does x the document would then follow path x (so the things that the party does will have a big effect on the outcome of the story).

It would probably be a lot of extra work, but the user would see everything and can then appreciate the options presented. And because the setting/adventure would be so flexible it would appeal to more people and so should theoretically generate more income.

I thought that Clark's conclusion was, utilize the medium and don't try to imitate a different medium? As for the programming, it shouldn't really be that big of a script (if this, then insert this, if that, then insert that). Ideally a script should be written that would do all of the booring repetative stuff.

 

[Master01]

Clark,

Goblin's Lairs was reviewed by Gamewyrd (and published then on RPGnow monthly) and a banner appeared on EN world.

This is our review page
http://www.0onegames.com/pages/reviews.html

If you want more info feel free to contact me.

 

[Nellisir]

Looking at the ISBN Application page for new publishers, costs look like $225 for 10 ISBNs, plus a $14.95 registration fee, for regular processing (you can get express and priority, at additional cost).

There may be other costs involved; these are the obvious ones. Says nothing about Canada.

Cheers
Nell.

Interested
[Edit] There are instruction for a single publisher using ISBNs on multiple imprints, and something like that could probably be worked out by a number of e-publishers (IANAL), but I personally think e-publishers would be better helped with a single quality imprint than a slew of little, 6-month between releases imprints.

 

[HellHound]

In Canada, ISBNs are free to Canadian Publishers.

 

[Chern Ann]

Free ISBNs

OK I'm a brand spanking newbie to En World, so apologies in advance for any accidental slip ups.

First, I run CoolMiniOrNot.com. It's a miniatures "Hot or Not" site that I've been running for about 2 years now. So we're in the same general hobby if not the same niche .

The reason I stumbled onto En World was because I saw mentions of it twice in one week, once online and the 2nd time in a back issue of KOTD that I just picked up.

I've just started carrying miniature related downloads in my online store (ie paper models) so naturally when I visited the site I was drawn to the e-publishing forum.

Second, for those interested in the print route, I just published a hardback print edition of our first ever annual. A 104 page, hard cover full colour book cost $11,500 to print 1000 copies in Singapore and have them shipped to the US on 150gsm paper. Costs for 2000 copies would have been $15,000 but I wasn't confident of selling that many. Images of the book are here: http://www.coolminiornot.com/book.php. A black and white 100 page book would probably have cost $5000 for 1000 copies. I can give the name of the printers I used if anyone is interested, they were very professional and took everything we had in Quark format with 300 dpi TIFF files for pictures. I'd imagine for hot selling items this may be a more profitable route to reach more people.

Third, and this is the meat of it. ISBNs in Singapore are free. The only condition is you deposit two copies at the national library, which, for a POD or electronic book, is not going to be a big issue I imagine. There are no restrictions on residence in Singapore to be considered a "Singapore publisher", although you need a Singapore correspondence address and fax number I imagine. Turn around time for your ISBN is THREE DAYS.

I don't think there'll be a huge deluge of people taking me up on my offer, which is why I'm offering. If you like, I can assist in processing ISBNs for you folk, I imagine the reason it's free is due to the dearth of publishing in Singapore at the moment.

You can find out the relevant details here:

http://www.nlb.gov.sg/aboutus/abtus_isbn.asp

I'd personally suggest avoiding a mad gold rush and at least appearing to have some kind of correspondence address in Singapore so that these guys don't close this avenue to foreigners.

I can be reached at chernann@coolminiornot.com, in case you're wondering.

 

[philreed]

A 104 page, hard cover full colour book cost $11,500 to print 1000 copies in Singapore and have them shipped to the US on 150gsm paper. Costs for 2000 copies would have been $15,000 but I wasn't confident of selling that many.

I am sorry to tell you but you were robbed. Seriously robbed. That's $11.50/book.

This is why LOTS of research is necessary before printing a book.

 

[Chern Ann]

I am sorry to tell you but you were robbed. Seriously robbed. That's $11.50/book.

This is why LOTS of research is necessary before printing a book.

$11.50 for a full colour book, all 104 pages seemed to be alright, especially for the small print run. If I'd gone with 2000 books it'd have been $7.50, 5000 $5. The printers sold me the overrun quantity at $3.5 per copy, so I assume that must be their actual printing costs minus the colour sep and tooling. If I had the confidence to sell 20,000 books I would probably have been able to get the cost down to that level with some bargaining, but 1000 copies, I seriously doubt anyone would be able to go lower without a firm commitment to reorders.

My day job is currently running a corrugated carton plant; I make cartons for HP, from making the board all the way to offset printing and lamination, so I roughly know the costs of colour seperation and setup. FYI, a HP printed box that you get costs HP around $2.50, depending on the size of the box.

However, if you've got connections to get a full colour 300 dpi book, at 1000 copies printed for less including colour sep I'd be really interested to know it for our next volume.

 

[afstanton]

$11.50 for a full colour book, all 104 pages seemed to be alright, especially for the small print run. If I'd gone with 2000 books it'd have been $7.50, 5000 $5. The printers sold me the overrun quantity at $3.5 per copy, so I assume that must be their actual printing costs minus the colour sep and tooling. If I had the confidence to sell 20,000 books I would probably have been able to get the cost down to that level with some bargaining, but 1000 copies, I seriously doubt anyone would be able to go lower without a firm commitment to reorders.

My day job is currently running a corrugated carton plant; I make cartons for HP, from making the board all the way to offset printing and lamination, so I roughly know the costs of colour seperation and setup. FYI, a HP printed box that you get costs HP around $2.50, depending on the size of the box.

However, if you've got connections to get a full colour 300 dpi book, at 1000 copies printed for less including colour sep I'd be really interested to know it for our next volume.

Sorry, Chern, but he's right. You got robbed. By my understanding of the industry, you should be paying approximately 10% of the cover price. Admittedly, a smaller print run will cost you more per copy, but in this industry a 5000 copy run is huge for a newcomer, and there is no way a customer will pay $50 for a 104 page book.

I'll admit that I don't have the answers you need. I wish I did. I wish you luck in further products.

Aaron

P.S. Just checked it out - it does look really nice!

 

[Fast Learner]

I would love for anyone to point to an actual printer who will print 1,000 hardcover copies of 104 pages in full color for less than $10 each. I'd be stunned and really impressed.

Yes, industry standard is production costs = 10% of retail price. That's why you don't see full color 100-page hardcovers in print runs of 1,000. For what he got I don't think he got robbed at all.

But please prove me wrong with an actual printer who will do it for substantially less.

 

[Crothian]

I suggest asking this in the publisher forum as I imagine few pdf publishers know as much about print runs and cost.