PDFs: Why are people anti-watermark?

[Vigilance]

Since I seem to be the only person speaking up in favor of the practice, two points:

1. I'm not in favor of watermarks being shoved down people's throats. Last I checked (and I wouldn't expect this to change unless the new OBS requires watermarking) RPGObjects PDFs were security free.

2. The reason I stand up for the practice is because it seems like eventually there has to be a level of security consumers are willing to tolerate. Certainly the security of PDFs is less than just about anything else I buy electronically. No EULAs, no real licenses really.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

If someone steals your computer or gains illegal access to your hard drive, what is your liability on the (off) chance the watermarked files appear on a file sharing site later on?

Zip if you report the computer stolen.

 

[Cergorach]

(he was only joking with you because you said "guild" instead of "guilt.")

Ehh... Doh!

In my defense, i was reading an article on Guild Wars... ;-)

 

[Henry]

Since I seem to be the only person speaking up in favor of the practice, two points:

To be fair, several people in the thread initially spoke in favor. The main reason they're not that boisterous about it is because it seems a foregone conclusion: The majority of purchasers don't have a problem with Watermarking. On the other hand, a HECK of a lot of people, myself included, hated DRM. It was about as well thought-out as the Divx plans from a few years back.

I've bought Watermarked PDF's, and have no problems with them. Most vendors, especially if you're a regular customer, will give you the benefit of the doubt - I've had publishers reset my accounts, re-mail me lost links (back before bookshelves), and all sorts of other things that in the good old days was called "customer service." Unless I am out there filesharing, the chance of a watermarked PDF coming back to me is pretty slim - slim enough, like driving the Interstate, that I'm willing to take it for the goods I receive.

 

[Psion]

I tend to think that watermarks DO deter copyright infringement. Not determined "I'm gonna crack this" copying, but casual "here Jimmy, have a copy, oh and feel free to bittorrent it" copying.

I objected to DRM because DRM is a crappy, consumer hostile technology which threatens the longevity of my product and makes me beholden to the vagaries of shifting winds in the software business and the whims of a customer support should I want to use the book on more than 6 different systems... which, with my system turnover, is a rather short period of time.

Watermarks, on the other hand, do not compromise the value of the product and represent minimal and reasonable measures by the publisher to protect their copyrights.

 

[Psion]

Ehh... Doh!

In my defense, i was reading an article on Guild Wars... ;-)

Yeah, I'd feel pretty guilty about that too.

 

[Nifft]

I tend to think that watermarks DO deter copyright infringement. Not determined "I'm gonna crack this" copying, but casual "here Jimmy, have a copy, oh and feel free to bittorrent it" copying.

I agree. That's part of why they vaguely annoy me. I want to lend PDFs to my friends (aka illegally copy them), but watermarking makes me think twice.

The inconvenience is mild. The annoyance is mild. The watermark does its job pretty well.

I wish they didn't exist, specifically so I could copy PDFs more easily.

Cheers, -- Honest Nifft

(Now, personally, I don't think PDF copying leads to loss of sales, but that's a totally different topic for a totally different thread.)

 

[Vanuslux]

One advantage to watermarking that I've not seen brought up yet is that it makes it significantly easier to get the PDF printed at Kinko's, who are fairly militant about not printing copyrighted material. When you're name is watermarked onto the pdf, it makes it a bit clearer that it's something you bought, not something you stole.

 

[SteveC]

Since I'm one of the people who mentioned watermarking as a no-go for me in another thread, I thought I would reply to this one.

First of all, I don't deal in bootleg PDFs. Frankly, I'm really insulted by the connotation that someone who doesn't like watermarking would only be of that opinion if they were going to share or steal PDFs.

I BUY PDFs. For a long time my .sig had "I buy PDFs, just not those with DRM" in it, because that's the truth. Watermarking is a form of DRM, and I don't support it, and that's just about it.

I don't like watermarking, because I don't want a watermark on my printed pages, and I also don't want it because it gets us back to the notion that when I'm buying a PDF from a company, I'm actually only "renting the current presentation of the data." Frankly, that's nonsense. When I buy that PDF, I've made a purchase from you, I don't have something on loan from you.

Why do companies watermark? Because they believe it will help cut down on piracy. Does it? No way. If someone wants to pirate your book, they'll do it. I, on the other hand, and the guy giving you money, mostly because I want to support you and support the industry, and keep you writing. The people who are asking about watermarks before they buy a product aren't your problem: the folks that pirate your PDFs know how to take those out.

So here's the bottom line: you might think it's silly that I won't buy a watermarked PDF, or that I'm secretly pirating all of your books out onto bittorrent, but, frankly, I don't care. PDFs may not be a viable long-term business medium, which is too bad, because I think many companies out there are putting out some very interesting stuff. Still, I'll be...err...darned if I'll support a business practice that treats me like I'm a thief. There are ways that you can sell a PDF without any copy protection and still get customers to buy them: offer service and updates after the sale! In the long run, that's the only way we'll still see PDFs being sold in five years (if not sooner).

Oh, and I suppose you wouldn't mind if I put a time and date stamp on every page of your new copy of Complete Scoundrel, would you?

Sorry if that comes off as harsh, but this is a hot button issue with me. No offense is intended to anyone in this thread, but when I see "there's no good reason someone would not support watermarking if they weren't a pirate," it frosts my pumpkin!

--Steve

 

[Crothian]

Why do companies watermark? Because they believe it will help cut down on piracy. Does it? No way.

Of course statements like these that can't be backed up are not helping this thread out at all.