Peels skin, necromatic offensive spell

[Ferret]

Just joting down ideas, as always I'd like your valued opinions on this spell. The power level is my main concern.

Peel Skin
Necromancy
Level: Wiz/Sor 2, Dru 2
Components: S, M
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Person or creature touched
Duration: Special
Save: Fortitude (Half)
SR: Yes

By touching a creature’s skin with a salt encrusted hand, the caster magically removes a layer of the targets skin removing its natural armour. One point per 2 caster levels, of natural armour is removed, this lasts for one whole day or until the damage is healed in any way. In addition to this the spell causes 2d8 damage to creatures with Natural armour, and 4d8 to those without.

Material: A handful of salt.


So any thoughts would be helpful, I'd just like to know if this is a good idea for a spell.

 

[Pyrex]

What's 'Natural resistance'?

Also I'd bump it to 1pt/2lvls with a Fort save for half.

Given that it Targets a creature and directly affects them it should *absolutely* allow SR.

 

[Ferret]

I must conceed on those two points, I just like SR and Saveless spells too much

Thanks fo r the advice, what do you think of the actual spell (Gross, neat, evil)?

 

[Pyrex]

I agree, I definately like spells with no save and no SR too, but in this case I think they're both called for.

Definately mean, but not necessarily [Evil]; and an interesting idea as it fills a gap in the current lineup of debuff spells.

 

[Thondor]

Very neat and it fills a nice hole.
I think the damages needs to be more staggered. Off the cuff i can't think of many spells that have a very neat effect and do 2d8 (it's the kind of spell you use on the big bad tough thing, you don't want to do to much damage or the effect isn't as good - you won't really hit him more often for reducing his armor. i.e. he'll be dead)
My suggestion:
start the spell as (3rd level caster): -1 Natural armour, 1d8 damage (original 2d8 damage)
4th level caster : -2 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
6th level caster: -3 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
8th level caster: -4 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
9th level caster: -4 Natural armor, 2d8 damage (damage cap; no higher)
10th level caster: -5 Natural armor, 2d8 damage
you may want to cap the natural armour reduction at 6 (level 12) I'm undecided on it personaly but there arn't many spells that go up forever.
As for those without Natural armor:
3rd level caster: 1d8
4th: 2d8(an extra d8 for a none nich use of the spell is very generous, +3d8 is way to much)
6th: 2d8*
8th: 3d8
10th: 3d8*
12th: 4d8

*You should throw in a save versus shock (losing multiple layers of skin all at once is extremely painful) no action for 1 round, (what are the changes for staggered?) Put the save versus shock in at 6th or 10th.

This begs for a higher level version that takes off like -10 natural armour and for subjects without Natural armour it does damage +causes fainting (unconcious for rest of encounter at least) or even possibly death.

I'm very interested in all thoughts on this. It's a brilliant spell. It'll be going into my spell book one way or the other.

 

[gogo_jerrick]

Great concept

Absolutely love the concept! I think it's a great spell but I would modify it in these ways:
(d8 for 2nd lvl spell is a bit much)
against creatures w/o natural armor:
1d4/caster lvl (max 10d4) +1 point of damage every round untill a successful heal check/2 lvls(max 5)

against creatures w/ natural armor:
1d6/caster lvl (max 5d6) +1 point of nat. armor/2 caster levels

spell does not function on creatures or parts of creatures that seem unreasonable (stone golems, creatures w/ stoneskin effects, up to dm discretion)

 

[Ferret]

Very neat and it fills a nice hole.
I think the damages needs to be more staggered. Off the cuff i can't think of many spells that have a very neat effect and do 2d8 (it's the kind of spell you use on the big bad tough thing, you don't want to do to much damage or the effect isn't as good - you won't really hit him more often for reducing his armor. i.e. he'll be dead)

Good points, thanks for the praise.

My suggestion:
start the spell as (3rd level caster): -1 Natural armour, 1d8 damage (original 2d8 damage)
4th level caster: -2 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
6th level caster: -3 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
8th level caster: -4 Natural armor, 1d8 damage
9th level caster: -4 Natural armor, 2d8 damage (damage cap; no higher)
10th level caster: -5 Natural armor, 2d8 damage

Could we have the 2d8 at 7th level? Would that dramatically alter the balance? I can see now that 2d8 strate in is way too much. Also is there any method to this?

you may want to cap the natural armour reduction at 6 (level 12) I'm undecided on it personaly but there aren't many spells that go up forever.

I hadn't thought about a cap, not because I wanted it to go forever, though a 6 max is a good idea.

As for those without Natural armor:
3rd level caster: 1d8
4th: 2d8(an extra d8 for a none nich use of the spell is very generous, +3d8 is way to much)
6th: 2d8*
8th: 3d8
10th: 3d8*
12th: 4d8

I think this should start out at 2d8, one to set it apart from the alternate damage, and two other damage that are at range can deal 2d6 or multiple 2d4s (Flaming arrow).

*You should throw in a save versus shock (losing multiple layers of skin all at once is extremely painful) no action for 1 round, (what are the changes for staggered?) Put the save versus shock in at 6th or 10th.

This begs for a higher level version that takes off like -10 natural armour and for subjects without Natural armour it does damage +causes fainting (unconcious for rest of encounter at least) or even possibly death.

Noted. Although I think any save I add will be from the start. I agree a later level spell would be a good idea.

I'm very interested in all thoughts on this. It's a brilliant spell. It'll be going into my spell book one way or the other.

Thanks! I'll try to update the spell using your thoughts.

 

[Thondor]

Could we have the 2d8 at 7th level? Would that dramatically alter the balance? I can see now that 2d8 strate in is way too much. Also is there any method to this?

Sure the 2d8 can happen at 7th level against nat. armor (along with the -3 to natural armor,yes?) I only put it in later because I like giving casters something to look forward to. I think your right though, it would come in to late to be very good.
The only method I used is that the Nat. armour damage goes up every 2 caster levels and the damage shouldn't increase at the same time with that.
So you put it up at 7th and I put it up at 9th. Go with 7th.

I hadn't thought about a cap, not because I wanted it to go forever, though a 6 max is a good idea.

Cap good. 12th level -6 Nat. Armor reduction and 2d8 damage. Sounds like a powerful but balanced 2ndlevel spell. Cool

I think this should start out at 2d8, one to set it apart from the alternate damage, and two other damage that are at range can deal 2d6 or multiple 2d4s (Flaming arrow).

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow you.
To me the spell is best applied to those with natural armor which is why I set it up as I did. That your always having one less effect if your using it on someone without NA
So:
3rd level against NA: -1NA + 1d8
3rd level against normal: just 1d8

4th level against Na: -2 NA +1d8
4th againts normal: 2d8 (that's a cost of -2 Na for 1d8 seems reasonable to me)

6th level against Na: -3 NA +1d8
6th againts normal: 2d8

here comes the change because of the new 3d8 at 7th I'd suggest putting in the staggered/shock/whatever effect here

7th level against Na: -3 NA +2d8
7th againts normal: 2d8 + "shock" (how do you want the save for this to work)

8th level against Na: -4 NA +2d8
8th againts normal: 3d8 + "shock" (so that's 2d8 for the 2d8 done against those with NA, 1d8

damn this is getting confusing there's got to b an easy way to break this down

When this spell is used against those without natural armor it does the same #of d8 damage as the narural armor damage -1. Instead of gaining the extra d8 at 7th level the caster inflicts shock ex. 12th level would do -6 NA and 2d8 damage, 12th would do 5d8 + shock.

Only problem with that is the 5d8 is one dice higher then I would want to give this spell.


Hopefully the above makes some sense to you.

 

[Ferret]

I think this should start out at 2d8, one to set it apart from the alternate damage, and two other damage that are at range can deal 2d6 or multiple 2d4s (Flaming arrow).

I was comparing other spells of second level. Fire trap and Flaming arrow.

There does need to be a system, 1d8 per 3 levels, by 12 level we have and acceptable 4d8, if we call the Damage against naturally armoured people half this rounded up 1 to 3 is .5 rounded up to 1, andf so on. I'll add arbitrary stuns in later...