@ people complaining about fluff

[Kishin]

And I've determined that 100% of posters who belittle fellow forum goers like this are 95% likely to be arrogant, bullying attention seekers.

And for the record I'm a likely 4th ed convert with mild concerns.

Well, I, for one, have determined pie to be delicious.

Who's with me?

 

[ImperialParadox]

I think one of the main concerns for the people who don't like the new fluff is ease-of-use. Some people like to buy campaign settings because the book has already done a lot of the work for them. Not only does the book have your fluffy world background info, but it will also have your crunchy bits which bring the fluff into the rules.

So you can tell someone who is changing to 4th ed to just use the 3rd ed FR fluff if they don't like the changes, but then they will have to go back and convert all the 3rd ed fluff into 4th ed crunch. This kind of work runs counter to the desires of the people who want everything ready to go out of the box.

 

[Incanus.mb]

Uh! Sorry for the double post

 

[Incanus.mb]

@And I've determined that 100% of posters who belittle fellow forum goers like this are 95% likely to be arrogant, bullying attention seekers.

What he said. Seriously, your post was full of contempt and hatred. Just for a game and some debate?! You should ask yourself "why am i sur-reacting like that". That could be full of teaching.
Plus, your pseudo-statistics argument makes no sense at all (but that's another problem^^). "1% of my own calculated statistics of 10% of my own calculated biaised statistic on a biaised interned biaised forum [all the forum are biaised) answering to biaised polls (the same) should make..uh....oh! look! that should make what i want it should like )".

Isn't it?

You really shouldn't waste your time. Some people don't want solutions, they just want to complain. What would the internet be without complainers?

Yeah. The worst ever are the ones that complains about complainers!


On to the topic. Noicus, the problem is: you posted, not an argument, but a pure "reaction" if i could say.
Because what you said could be applied in any situation...

"Eh look, company X changed my game into the story of Barby and Sheila having fun at the beach but suddenly Ken arrives and he wears an awfull blue shirt! What a shame!!"
You could answer: "no problem, just ignore it".......



Off course, we can ignore everything and do what we want. Off course, and that's really pretentious to come here and throw at the face of gamers such an estimated and useless lesson, because EVERYBODY know that.

The problem is what people perceive as a biiiig lack of consistency and quality. That's their right, and trying to deny them this right is really mean.

Whan a new rpg is coming, what gamers hope is a good story, good fluff. They CAN ignore the bad fluff, but everyone here (and you too, if you are honest) prefer to ignore the less things possible.

I'm saying this, i don't have the slightest interest in the Realms myself, it's not the kind of universe i like, i already have Midnight (and for me that's the best campaign setting ever published and i'm GLAD that WOTC will never touch it with a pole).

But i never deny the right to other people to like the Realms, to wish it's continued existence and to wish quality and consistency for the fluff developped in the future. I try to stay open, even for playing in a campaign setting i don't specially like.

You could be a little more understanding, that will not hurt you.

 

[Voss]

I agree. I find you post ironic, however. A fit about people throwing fits

I find it ironic since its been several months seen I've seen people talking about this. Most people who are disgusted with the new settings have just given up on them.

 

[Darkness]

I've determined that there are approximately 1% of the roughly 10% of posters who hate 4e actually, genuinely dislike 4e for valid, rational, reasonable and well thought out reasons.

The other 9% are just whiny, creativity lacking, argumentative, unimaginative, attention seekers.

88.61% of statistics are made up on the spot. Including the one I just posted, obviously.

More to the point, it's really rude to belittle posters who don't like 4e by claiming the vast majority of them are, in essence, dull trolls. So please don't do that again.

ImperialParadox, please report (or ignore, if you want) posts like this instead of contributing to the problem by lowering your posting standard to the same level.

In case it needs to be said, all this goes for everybody else as well. Please respect your fellow posters, folks - including those you disagree with.

 

[DandD]

I think one of the main concerns for the people who don't like the new fluff is ease-of-use. Some people like to buy campaign settings because the book has already done a lot of the work for them. Not only does the book have your fluffy world background info, but it will also have your crunchy bits which bring the fluff into the rules.

So you can tell someone who is changing to 4th ed to just use the 3rd ed FR fluff if they don't like the changes, but then they will have to go back and convert all the 3rd ed fluff into 4th ed crunch. This kind of work runs counter to the desires of the people who want everything ready to go out of the box.

Yeah, but that shouldn't be that hard now, is it? Gnolls are still gnolls (now with funny pack-attack-special qualities), epic level wizards are still epic levels (and this time, according to the promises of the game designers, epic characters are better integrated into the rules), irrelevant NPCs still use irrelevant and weak NPC-stats (no more thinking if the peasant is a level 4 commoner, or better a level 3 expert, but now simply use level 1 plot device with trained skill in whatever). Monsters are still monsters. The D20-skill system is still used. And in the Forgotten Realms, somehow, important NPCs don't get ressurected at all unless the plot calls it, however nonsensical that is.

 

[Baron Opal]

Well, I, for one, have determined pie to be delicious.

Who's with me?

PIE!!

Want some pie, Francis? Here you go... Yummy yummy! Who's my minion? Yes, you are! Who's the fluffy little minion? Let me comb you. All the char is prety much gone. We're going to have a chat with that mean old tiefling aren't we, Francis? Yes we are! The whole family in fact, down at the old broken-down water mill. More pie? Oh, yes Francis, have more pie! Yummy yummy!

 

[Shemeska]

And now is definitely the time to voice complaints, while WotC can still make changes.

I'm not sure it would change much though. The changes are so radical in scope that if they aren't liked, it's probably too late to salvage things without a reboot come 5e (or come Hasbro selling the brand). The reception on candlekeep for instance is downright ugly.

In my own experience, which may or may not be representative, I think the changes risk alienating a majority of FR fans. Of course, the sales figures for 4e FR will be what ultimately determines if that's a correct observation or not.

 

[Imban]

Yeah, but that shouldn't be that hard now, is it?

Uh, sure, if you're willing to say like 3/4 of the things that used to be player options and are definitely present on canonical people in FR are NPC-only. Like being a Red Wizard of Thay, given that spell schools no longer exist in 4e and the majority of them seem to not even exist as things Wizards can do as more than a cursory nod, if that.