D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[shadowoflameth]

I didn't the mechanic as presented except that it may slow play down. It wasn't complicated. My thought was that the sub-classes could be options for several classes, but new classes would be nice, and they could have feats to customize if they wanted just like Martial Adept and Arcane Intiate do.

 

[Hussar]

Why the warlock, but not the warlord or a psionic class?

Let's be honest here. Six years ago, at the opening of 5e, you would not be able to get a warlord into the game past the army of edition warriors that would absolutely lose their minds if something with so many 4e cooties were to be openly added to the game. It had nothing whatsoever to do with mechanical issues or lack of balance.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, the thing is, when someone says "welcome to XYZ", it implies that whatever they are replying to is just an unavoidable part of ZYX, which is what I am saying isn't true.

Yeah, sorry, I was being kind of glib there. In my experience it has been the case that a lot of waiting for basics and a lot of baggage that doesn’t support the concept is an unavoidable part of 5e. I don’t presume your experience is the same as mine, but I think my experience is fairly common.

 

[Charlaquin]

Let's be honest here. Six years ago, at the opening of 5e, you would not be able to get a warlord into the game past the army of edition warriors that would absolutely lose their minds if something with so many 4e cooties were to be openly added to the game. It had nothing whatsoever to do with mechanical issues or lack of balance.

I think they could have managed it, had they been willing to stick to the commitment to include in the PHB all races and classes that had appeared in a previous edition’s PHB(1). Though what we ended up getting out of it probably would not have looked anything like what warlord fans want out of a warlord.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think they could have managed it, had they been willing to stick to the commitment to include in the PHB all races and classes that had appeared in a previous edition’s PHB(1). Though what we ended up getting out of it probably would not have looked anything like what warlord fans want out of a warlord.

Back then, probably not.

Now, I think they could do it easily, but lets not have that debate again!

 

[MichaelSomething]

Back then, probably not.

Now, I think they could do it easily, but lets not have that debate again!

Are you marking me good sir?

 

[SkidAce]

Those are some really specific conclusions you've drawn about an awful lot of people.

I'm actually sort-of in the camp you describe (not that I would terribly mind having psionics in D&D, but the way I distinguish genres it's not a great fit). And I've seen a few other people say similar things.

But I would not be so bold as to make the sweeping generalizations you do (or the sweeping generalizations made in the post you were responding to).

I think they were talking about their friends, not d&d'rs in general.

 

[Undrave]

It works for 5E only because it is the dominant game, and has a huge captive audience, and it's unclear if it's even helping them at all.

Everybody says the 'Invention Wizard' would have gone over better if its link to Ravnica had been made clear in the playtest so...

My most recent character was a Storm Sorcerer. I decided to do the thematic thing and pick all the spells having something to do with thunder or lightning, or which I could fairly easily theme as being created by storm related phenomenon (like Catapult being the result of a swift gust of wind).

My two cantrips....
Shocking Grasp (touch)
Thunderclap (5' radius)

Yes....I played as sorcerer who had two attack cantrips that had to be used in melee combat. It wasn't......ideal.

My choices were to either

1. Ignore the idea of trying to model a sorcerer who's powers all relate to their origin.
2. Houserule changing of damage type to change Firebolt to Lightningboltette or similar.
3. Stick with my theme and be less than optimal.

I picked 3. My sorcerer rarely, if ever, used attack cantrips and when I was out of spells I just had to wade into melee and hope for the best.

He died trying to thunderwave three dwarves into a chasm and all three making their saves.

Augh... This is the most annoying part of the Sorcerer IMO. If you go for Lightening or Acid for your Dragonic specialty, you basically end up with dead levels! Why didn't they they just added a 'Energy Burst' cantrip or something that could have whatever Draconic element damage when you select it? It would have made things SO much easier to keep to a theme... Damage type flexibility isn't that big of a deal, it's not broken to have options.

Pretty much the reason why I am forever grateful for the introduction of Cantrips.

When they fit your theme its great.

I think they could have managed it, had they been willing to stick to the commitment to include in the PHB all races and classes that had appeared in a previous edition’s PHB(1). Though what we ended up getting out of it probably would not have looked anything like what warlord fans want out of a warlord.

They could have snuck it in as The Fighter if they had been clever about their design. I keep saying that the 4e Warlord is actually the fulfillment of the 1e Fighting Man concept. You know, the one who ended up with a Keep, Followers and Troop? The Fighting Man was clearly always intended to fullfill the concept of the 'leader of men'. The Warlord just gave us a way that didn't involve micromanaging a bunch of NPC, like the Leadership Feat, but rather integrated it with the party. The Fighter was just robbed of this aspect as it kept being dumbed down further and further by the myth of the 'simple noob friendly class', while the Thief stole all its mundane skills.

 

[Hussar]

I think they could have managed it, had they been willing to stick to the commitment to include in the PHB all races and classes that had appeared in a previous edition’s PHB(1). Though what we ended up getting out of it probably would not have looked anything like what warlord fans want out of a warlord.

Well, then again, to get into the PHB, it would have had to pass that 90% sniff test rating, like the other PHB classes, so, I'd say that it would actually be pretty acceptable.

Heck, until such time as they actually take a stab at it in UA, we'll never know. But, this long in, I think it's pretty safe to say that the concept of warlord is dead as far as WotC goes.

That's basically the difference between psion and warlord. While there are folks that don't really want psionics in the game, by and large, they're not terribly vocal. Or, at least, they never have been before. Other than a grumble here or there, nobody seems to care enough to actively try to block the inclusion of psionics. Warlords? Yeah, even today that won't get past the gates.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Augh... This is the most annoying part of the Sorcerer IMO. If you go for Lightening or Acid for your Dragonic specialty, you basically end up with dead levels! Why didn't they they just added a 'Energy Burst' cantrip or something that could have whatever Draconic element damage when you select it? It would have made things SO much easier to keep to a theme... Damage type flexibility isn't that big of a deal, it's not broken to have options.

WotC are aware of this issue - it's why they threw in an Acid spell along with the bunch of standardised summon spells in the recent UA.