People have the strangest deal-breakers

[Dannyalcatraz]

I agree they shouldn't be mandatory with respect to continuous errata, as a substitute for poor game design. But I don't understand people paying $17/m for a mmo subscription grumping about coming up with $5/m for a character builder, monster archive, virtual table, access to every rule ever printed, and every back issue of dragon/dungeon.

Count me as one who won't support a rental business model overa purchase model. I've had too many issues with vital but old computer data being rendered unusable due to a hardware or software upgrade*- including one that just popped up this year- to feel comfy with going to a pure DDI model.

And no, I don't play MMOs.

In my group of @12, most of the players do, though, including one guy who is a computer game designer. And only one has a DDI account.











* not fly-by-night companies, either- the short list includes Apple, Microsoft and Intuit.

 

[Oni]

agreed, Jack--feats are the reason i stopped buying dnd books once 2E was supplanted by 3.0. "hey, i just got a 'level'! suddenly i am able to do XYZ amazing ability without any rational explanation, even given the 'physics' of the dnd world and the magic therein! and of course, i will choose one that will allow me to choose a later one than will allow me to choose a LATER one that will make me all-powerful! yay for powergaming!"

ugh.

Characters never spontaneously got new abilities on leveling up in 2e?

Ranger: "Hey, I'm 8th level, I can cast spells!"
Wizard: "Sweet, I'm 3rd level, I can cast 2nd level spells!"
Thief: "Hey, I'm 10th level, I can use scrolls!"
Cleric: "Hey, I'm 9th level, the church says i can build a fort and stock it with nuns!"

et c.

Because the rational that you can do new things when you level up has never been that you've been training or building reputation or whatever have you over time or in the background between scenes.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to not like feats, but this complaint doesn't make any sense. And as for picking feats that let you pick to choose other feats that's no less logical than studying biology with the intent to go to med school.

 

[delchrys]

If you don't see the difference between a ranger gaining a few nature spells at 8th level and the over-the-top feats available in 3.0 and beyond, nothing I say will make my point here. There are levels of suspension of disbelief and later edition feats are significantly more difficult to rationalize than the abilities earned through leveling up in early editions. It's a lot easier to build into the campaign storyline the new abilities gained through leveling in 2e and 1e than subsequent additions.

 

[TarionzCousin]

All I'm saying is, if there are boobs in 5E, I'm in!

 

[William Ronald]

I would argue that either suddenly gaining the ability to gain spells or learning how to react faster in a fight do not suspend credibility if you consider that someone has been training "offstage" for them. (E. Gary Gygax, may he rest in peace, had a section in the 1st Edition DMG where he mentioned that fighters practicing at arms, wizards studying musty tomes, thieves working on complex locks and clerics memorizing religious texts were not that exciting for game play and mostly were considered to be done offstage.) Otherwise, one can ask why a ranger had to wait so long for spells when he is already a guardian of nature.

As of right now, I am largely neutral on a new edition as I am happy with the game that I am playing. My concern is that there will be so many deal breakers that a new iteration will fail and end up not only hurting Dungeons and Dragons and WotC, but the table top role playing hobby.

 

[Zaukrie]

1. I enjoyed playing 1E, 2E, 3E, 4E. I see no reason I won't enjoy 5E, as I just like sitting around with a bunch of people playing a game, making jokes about geek stuff, and telling stories....

2. What is amazing to me is the absolute way some of the threads go about things that really don't have anything to do with how someone plays the games. And how long those threads are! Like boobs and dinosaur names? Bizarre to me what the community seems to care about....but I guess that's why there are so many games and books and music genres, because there are a lot of people out there with a lot of interests.

 

[Oni]

If you don't see the difference between a ranger gaining a few nature spells at 8th level and the over-the-top feats available in 3.0 and beyond, nothing I say will make my point here. There are levels of suspension of disbelief and later edition feats are significantly more difficult to rationalize than the abilities earned through leveling up in early editions. It's a lot easier to build into the campaign storyline the new abilities gained through leveling in 2e and 1e than subsequent additions.

Acquiring the ability to work magic is less remarkable than learning how to shoot a bit farther, more accurately at very short ranges, or slightly honing one's reflexes, fortitude, or will?

 

[OpsKT]

Well, I had posted my issues and anger about a new edition so soon before. I have also listed my main desires and for a new Edition of D&D a while ago to my own tumblr, but I'll put the short list here (language edited for the site).

1) HP = GONE. Wound tracking, health levels, condition tracks, anything but HP. HP are the things that make fights take too damn long!

So far, still here. It sounds like they are reducing the number of them across the board. I posted on another thread that if they are going to keep HP, they shoudl aim for a lifetime PC total of about 50. Dragons around 70. Demigods around 120. They might be doing that from the sound, so my root issue with HP might be addressed, if not the HP themselves.

2) Levels = GONE. Organic character creations and the ability to actually build whatever kind of character you want with just the core book. No PHB 1, 2, 3, just to have access to all the core character concepts of D&D.

Yeah, odds are that will not be going away. Seems like that is one of the non-killable sacred cows.

3) Multiple Books = GONE!!! Really. If you want any hope of me even looking at this edition, it had better be a complete game in one book.

No idea here yet at all. The format and number of books has not even been hinted at yet. We can hope for a one-book-one-edition to rule them. I think a Rules Cyclopedia style book for this edition would do a lot to lower the entry costs for new players.

4) Spellcasting by Vancian or Daily Methods = GONE! It is time for power points or magic points for all spellcasting characters.

Well, it seems like we've got Vancian slots for spells, or at least the ones learned. There might be a modular method for mana points in the core rules to address this however.

So, out of 4, one we still have no idea on, one seems like a compromise, and two are still going to be pretty much the way I don't want. I'm still willing to wait and see however, at least. It might be good. But it might also be an edition I pass on because I have other games that do what I want already; Savage Worlds, BRP, and 4th Edition. I'll take a look at the playtest rules (if they let me) and I'll take a look at the final product in stores, but I'm not jumping on the bandwagon till it proves it is at least better than the 4e I enjoy right now.

 

[Halivar]

Cleric: "Hey, I'm 9th level, the church says i can build a fort and stock it with nuns!"

I wonder how many middle school D&D players in the 80's had their own special Castle Anthrax.

 

[Oni]

As of right now, I am largely neutral on a new edition as I am happy with the game that I am playing. My concern is that there will be so many deal breakers that a new iteration will fail and end up not only hurting Dungeons and Dragons and WotC, but the table top role playing hobby.

Let us assume that WotC succeeds at what they set out to do and creates a solid and inclusive game that feels very much as D&D ought to. Then there is still one final hurtle to be overcome, the fans themselves. After a certain point it is up to us to be accepting of what other people like. If we ourselves set so many barriers to the games success by putting our foot down on every little thing and crying, "not in my game!" (and by that I mean how dare you sully my PHB with things other people like but I don't care for) then we have no one to blame but ourselves when the house falls down, because we insisted on tearing it apart from the inside.