Perception vs Passive Perception

[Mort_Q]

Would an active roll for Perception happen without a Passive Perception check? For the same thing?

It's up to the DM, but wouldn't you only really by making an roll because your passive check was too low?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Would an active roll for Perception happen without a Passive Perception check? For the same thing?

It's up to the DM, but wouldn't you only really by making an roll because your passive check was too low?

Not just that, but your character should need to know there is something they should be looking for.

Walking down the road ... missing your passive check to spot the Stealthed guy ... you aren't going to go active without there being a reason for it. One of the characters seeing him, and pointing him out, would be a reason to make the roll, for example.

Another example, with the Kobolds, is that you notice that one [or more] is trying to hide. "There must be more" you think, so you actively try to find more of them.

In other situations you are looking for something from the start. You know that there is a key somewhere, and you have to find it. Note: Search is no longer a skill, so it may have been rolled into perception, on occassion. Searching for something would likely be an active use of perception that, unless something is out in the open, would not have a passive check before hand.

 

[Ardulac]

Seen it all

To put it another way, you automatically get a passive perception check and even if you roll lower when you use an action to actively search it doesn't make you forget what you've already seen. You've seen it all, you've seen everything.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M

 

[Falling Icicle]

Passive Perception is just like taking 10 in 3rd edition. It could be better or worse than what you would have rolled.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Passive Perception is just like taking 10 in 3rd edition. It could be better or worse than what you would have rolled.

That's in direct contradiction to the general feeling in this thread, if you're implying that you get either an Active or a Passive check, but not both.

 

[D'karr]

That's in direct contradiction to the general feeling in this thread, if you're implying that you get either an Active or a Passive check, but not both.

You basically get both. The DM will roll anything he is "hiding" against your Passive Perception. He will give you the information based on that. The player can choose to roll his Perception, at which time it becomes an Active roll.

If the player rolls lower than the Passive, he just won't find anything else that had not been already described.

This allows players to notice traps, for example, without having to constantly tell the DM, "I'm searching for traps." This would also be the way that "elves" would find secret doors as a racial ability. They don't have to actively search. I'm not saying elves have or don't have that ability, it is just an example.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

You basically get both. The DM will roll anything he is "hiding" against your Passive Perception. He will give you the information based on that. The player can choose to roll his Perception, at which time it becomes an Active roll.

If the player rolls lower than the Passive, he just won't find anything else that had not been already described.

This allows players to notice traps, for example, without having to constantly tell the DM, "I'm searching for traps." This would also be the way that "elves" would find secret doors as a racial ability. They don't have to actively search. I'm not saying elves have or don't have that ability, it is just an example.

??? I understand how it works, thanks. I think you misread what I wrote.

 

[Li Shenron]

No. Passive is generally for when someone else is rolling, it's there because opposed rolls are much more swingy and random than a single roll vs a DC, only using passive perception in those situations means that your example will never come up.

It's all part of the project to unify the rules.

I think this is the correct way it will work, unless the designers get screwed up by still thinking in terms of 3ed Take10.

Passive and Active should apply to different situations to avoid the problem. So whether you actively search for your keys or just casually glance at them, it's still ACTIVE perception. The difference might be that in the second case the DM rolls for you without telling what she's rolling for.