Perkins' Foreword From OUT OF THE ABYSS

WotC's Chris Perkins on the Alice in Wonderland themes of D&D 5th Edition's Rage of Demon's Out of the Abyss by Green Ronin Publishing.

 

[delericho]

They got too much Drizzit on it for me. I'm tempted to pick it up to repurpose, but that Mary Sue juice is hard to wash off.

It's just an introduction, which really should talk about the inspirations for the work. And of course an Underdark-themed adventure set in the Realms will be at least partially inspired by Salvatore's work!

I'd advise a wait and see approach. If these mentions in the intro are all the appearance Drizzt & co make in the book, I really don't see a problem. And if not, and Drizzt does make some sort of an appearance, we can vote with our wallets - it's not like he won't be one of the first things that gets mentioned in early reviews.

 

[pemerton]

While I never got into the works of R.A. Salvatore and Troy Denning (is that D&D blasphemy?)

No, it's evidence of supremely good taste. I tip my hat toward you.

I don't think it's blasphemy until you start bashing Tolkien or REH!

I did read part of one FR novel 25 or so years ago (Darkwalker on Moonshae(?), maybe by Doug Niles). I found it terrible and never finished it. Drizzt to me is nothing but an internet legend.

really appreciate Chris Perkins sharing a snippet of his design process with us.

I agree. I only know Perkins from his WotC columns and associated 4e commentary, butto me he comes across as having a lot of integrity as a creator and a GM.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I don't think it's blasphemy until you start bashing Tolkien or REH! (snip)

Perish the thought!

(snip) I did read part of one FR novel 25 or so years ago (Darkwalker on Moonshae(?), maybe by Doug Niles). I found it terrible and never finished it. Drizzt to me is nothing but an internet legend. (snip)

Think about George Lucas and Star Wars. The first movie was brilliant... and then the prequels came along and we saw something that had devolved into what was, at best, a parody of its former brilliance. RAS is a lot like that, without the brilliant bit. And every novel features his version of Jar-Jar Binks and the gungans: unfortunately, they're called dwarves. Drizzt, BTW, is an Anakin analogue with the bad dialogue and general mawkishness.

And Darkwalker, like a lot of early FR novels, suffered from the fact that it wasn't meant to be an FR novel and basically had the logo slapped on it when it looked like that was a great way to sell stuff.

(snip) I agree. I only know Perkins from his WotC columns and associated 4e commentary, butto me he comes across as having a lot of integrity as a creator and a GM.

The guy is brilliant. Full stop. Exclamation mark. And that's been the case since he first started getting published in Dungeon during the 1E era.

 

[delericho]

Think about George Lucas and Star Wars. The first movie was brilliant... and then the prequels came along and we saw something that had devolved into what was, at best, a parody of its former brilliance. RAS is a lot like that, without the brilliant bit.

It's perhaps worth noting that "Exile" may be his best work. 'Best' being a relative term, of course.

And every novel features his version of Jar-Jar Binks and the gungans: unfortunately, they're called dwarves.

Yeah, that was what finally stopped me reading the series.

 

[Benji]

Perkins shared this in the podcast on wizards website at some point. In it he really clears up that as far he's concerned, this adventure has almost no driz stuff in and even if it did, taking it out would be somewhat easy. I have no idea why people get caught up in this: they won't publish an adventure where driz does stuff and you sit on the sidelines: it's a known formula for fail. So if he's in the background and you don't like him, call him Briscit Grenunon/Halen Nightmantle/Dave, change his scimitars to a Crossbow/Twin Axes/A Rubber Chicken and give him a Lynx/Wolf/Ape familiar. That should do it. It's shouldn't really be a dealbreaker.

I now want to play a ranger who has an ape familiar.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

It's perhaps worth noting that "Exile" may be his best work. 'Best' being a relative term, of course. (snip)

Personally, I have a soft spot for The Crystal Shard. There's a lot to like about that first book.

Perkins shared this in the podcast on wizards website at some point. In it he really clears up that as far he's concerned, this adventure has almost no driz stuff in and even if it did, taking it out would be somewhat easy. I have no idea why people get caught up in this: they won't publish an adventure where driz does stuff and you sit on the sidelines: it's a known formula for fail. So if he's in the background and you don't like him, call him Briscit Grenunon/Halen Nightmantle/Dave, change his scimitars to a Crossbow/Twin Axes/A Rubber Chicken and give him a Lynx/Wolf/Ape familiar. That should do it. It's shouldn't really be a dealbreaker.

I now want to play a ranger who has an ape familiar.

My problem is not with the presence or absence of Drizzle D'schnizzle, per se: for me, R A Salvatore and Troy Denning are simply two authors I don't want anywhere near the Realms (or, in the case of the latter, anywhere near the Realms OR Dark Sun). Let them have their novels but not game products as well. And the idea that they contributed to the story fills me with dread... a dread that is only ameliorated by the fact that I trust Green Ronin to write around the crap.

 

[sithramir]

If they helped then how many dwarves will the PCs encounter? Probably a whole city!

 

[Will Doyle]

Not gonna lie, this sounds super lame. It sounds like they made a land of nightmare and dark into a land of children's stories. Read a Clive Barker novel, then write about the Abyss. Do not take your inspiration from a children's book.

"I call my style of writing Fantastique, and it can be anything from Alice in Wonderland to Moby Dick."
The Clive Barker Interview, by Mike Lackey, Marvel Age no.107, December 1991

Alice in Wonderland has been cited as a source of inspiration for dozens of films and tv shows, from Lost to the Matrix. It is hallucinogenic, surreal, and full of nightmare characters.

 

[JeffB]

Indeed, if we are excluding the Disney version, Alice is a fine influence. I don't see that as the problem.

The real problem for me is the Realms' take on the Underdark, throwing a whole bunch of Demon Lords into the pot and elements of FR fiction and characters.

 

[Banesfinger]

Our group seems to be in a minority here (at least with those voicing their opinions on these forums), but we are actually looking forward to seeing/hearing/meeting Drizzt.

Most of my players just enjoy the tabletop game but have not read many Forgotten Realms novels. However, you would have to live under a rock not to know about Drizzt.
I use a modern analogy: most people have heard of specific rock stars, movie stars (Madonna, Tom Cruise, etc). By pure reputation alone, most of us have formulated an opinion on these people, without having ever met them. And just like the Player Characters, who may have an opinion of the superstar, there is still a "thrill" of meeting (in person) someone so famous.

As a DM in the Forgotten Realms, it is difficult not to let some of these 'Bigger than Life' NPCs overshadow the PCs. The key is to ensure the characters can 'outshine' those famous NPCs.