Perkins' Foreword From OUT OF THE ABYSS

WotC's Chris Perkins on the Alice in Wonderland themes of D&D 5th Edition's Rage of Demon's Out of the Abyss by Green Ronin Publishing.

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Russ Morrissey

Comments

God

Explorer
How much Drizzit do you think they got on it?
That's like asking, "How much raw sewage on your pizza is too much?" There is no acceptable amount of Drizzit.

The conundrum I find myself in: I loathe Salvatore and his spawn, and wish the Realms would be forgotten already. I'm glad others like them and can vote with their dollars. But I would like an opportunity to vote with my dollars, too, and purchase something, anything, from WotC that is not a Forgotten Realms product. The idea that I can file off the serial number and use a Forgotten Realm adventure in Greyhawk is beside the point, as buying an FR product does not encourage them to produce non-FR products.
 

rets82

Visitor
I am wondering for science =) If Salvatore is the worst writer on earth what kind of novels do the Drizzt haters read? I would love to see a bit of their reading list just to see what I must be missing, because I have read all of Salvatore's FR novels and will continue to do so as them come out.
 

Zil

Explorer
I am wondering for science =) If Salvatore is the worst writer on earth what kind of novels do the Drizzt haters read? I would love to see a bit of their reading list just to see what I must be missing, because I have read all of Salvatore's FR novels and will continue to do so as them come out.
Not sure if I count. I'm not exactly a hater. I'm more of an avoider because Savatore's FR novels have always looked kind of lame. I actually do have a few I've picked up over the years for a quarter or so at yard sales, but have never been able to bring myself to read them.

OFf the top of my head, my Fantasy/Science Fiction list would be something like this:
  • R Scott Bakker - Prince of Nothing Series, Aspect-Emperor Series
  • Iaan M Banks - The Algebraist, Culture Novels
  • James P Blaylock - Elfin Ship, Disappearing Dwarf, The Last Coin, The Digging Leviathan, etc.
  • Alan Campbell - Scar Night, Iron Angel, God of Clocks
  • Glen Cook - Black Company Series, Dread Empire Series, Garret Series, Instrumentalities of the Night
  • Peter Hamilton - Night's Dawn Trilogy, Void Trilogy, Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained
  • Frank Herbert - Dune et al
  • HP Lovecraft - At the Mountains of Madness, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, The Color Out of Space, The Shadow over Innsmouth, etc.
  • George RR Martin - Song of Fire and Ice
  • Mervyn Peake - Gormenghast, Titus Alone
  • China Mieville - Perdido Street Station, The Scar, Embassytown, The City and the City
  • Liane Merciel - Nightglass, Nightblade (these are the only two RPG novels on my list)
  • Alistair Reynolds - Revelation Space Novels
  • Michael Scott Rohan - The Anvil of Ice, The Forge in the Forest, The Hammer of the Sun
  • Michael Shea - Nifft the Lean, In Yana, the Touch of Undying
  • Brian Ruckley -Winterbirth et al, The Edinburgh Dead
  • JRR Tolkein - Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, The Silmarilion
  • Jack Vance - Dying Earth Series, Lyonesse Series
  • Vernor Vinge - A Fire Upon the Deep, A Deepness in the Sky, The Children of the Sky, Rainbows End
  • Tad Williams - Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, etc.
  • Roger Zelazny - Amber Series, Jack of Shadows, The Changing Land
 

God

Explorer
I would second most of Zil's list. A few others I'd add:
* Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy and the three later books (Best Served Cold, Before They are Hanged, Last Argument of Kings) set in that world
* David Gemmell, especially his older Drenai paperbacks
* Michael Stackpole's Dragon Crown War series
* Thieves' World series
* Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun
* Garth Nix's Old Kingdom trilogy, for some cool white necromancy
* Kenneth C. Flint's Sidhe trilogy (it's either a Celtic myth version of Star Wars, or the Celtic myth that inspired Star Wars ...)
* For game fiction, Dave Gross and Tim Pratt's books in the Pathfinder line have been mostly good, in addition to Merciel. Some inconsistency, but better than Salvatore by a mile.
 

Wuzzard

Visitor
I think I read somewhere that in the first chapter, Drizzt shows up, punches you in the gut and steals your lunch. Later, when you are on a mission to retrieve an ancient artifact, you find out that Drizzt has already been there and done that. You keep one step behind Drizzt the whole way. Occasionally you find a side quest that he ignored and are able to nab some loot and XP. You encounter demons with twisted minds. You find that most of them are mad in some way due to Drizzt. Either they love him, madly desire to be him or hate him and wish him dead. The grand-daddy demon of them all, however, turns out to be Drizzt himself. He's been disguised as a neurotic maniacal dark elf all these years, using this charade to wreak havoc across the multiverse.
 

Lidgar

Adventurer
There's actually a fair amount out there about the Underdark in the Realms, and in particular about Menzoberranzan. Since the adventure description name-checks Gromph Baenre, it's not entirely unreasonable to assume that the PCs might be heading to Menzoberranzan for a visit.
From the Tweet:

"Out of the Abyss cover - [MENTION=98644]Jacob[/MENTION]sontyler illustrates Demogorgon demolishing Menzoberranzan after a spell goes wrong!"

I think the likelihood that the adventure will at least partly take place in that dark city is quite high.
 

rets82

Visitor
That is an awesome list Zil. While I certainly have not gotten to all of those I have read several and enjoyed them to different degrees. I was being a bit of a smart ass with my question mostly because I really do not get all the hate any time FR or Salvatore stuff is posted about. Maybe I just have bad taste. Happy reading what ever you are in to.
 

Uchawi

Visitor
I hope they don't OD on drow, ala vault of the drow. A new spin or original story would be appreciated versus a rehash.
 

Weird Dave

Explorer
Very excited for this release. The Adventurers League scenarios that are part of the Rage of Demons storyline have been the funnest to run so far (and don't involve cultists! Yay!) and the multitude of demon lords spilling over into the Underdark make for ripe picking. It's also the first storyline season where the novels line up with the RPG products - I'm not going to lie, I'm a sucker for that kind of cross-media pollination.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
That's like asking, "How much raw sewage on your pizza is too much?" There is no acceptable amount of Drizzit.
I didn't' ask "How much Drizzit is too much?"; I asked "How much Drizzit do you think they got on it?" -- completely different question!
 
That is an awesome list Zil. While I certainly have not gotten to all of those I have read several and enjoyed them to different degrees. I was being a bit of a smart ass with my question mostly because I really do not get all the hate any time FR or Salvatore stuff is posted about. Maybe I just have bad taste. Happy reading what ever you are in to.
You'll find stuff of higher quality than Salvatore on Zil's and God's lists, for sure...but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the Drizzt books. I mean, just because Citizen Kane exists doesn't mean there's no place for King Kong.

I'd also add Scott Lynch and Patrick Rothfuss to those lists as other recent examples.
 

God

Explorer
I didn't' ask "How much Drizzit is too much?"; I asked "How much Drizzit do you think they got on it?" -- completely different question!
The answer is not none, so by default must be too much.

(I suppose I try to be too clever sometimes. Has led to all sorts of misunderstandings over the ages. )
 

rangergcg

Villager
Has anyone here played "The accursed tower" module written by Salvatore and his gaming group (the Seven Swords) ?
IMHO this is one the best 1st level modules ever written for D&D (great fun both for players and DM) : wilderness encounters, a real (and fun) dungeon, and some interesting twists.

And guess what ? Drizzt and even Regis are there as NPCs but without ever stealing the show from the PCs.

I think we should wait and see the ideas Perkins and co. have come out with.
 
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Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
Has anyone here played "The accursed tower" module written by Salvatore and his gaming group (the Seven Swords) ?
IMHO this is one the best 1st level modules ever written for D&D (great fun both for players and DM) : wilderness encounters, a real (and fun) dungeon, and some interesting twists. (snip)
Yes, it's surprisingly good.

But have you read FR9 The Bloodstone Lands, his only other RPG credit with TSR? One of the Nar tribes he named is Far Quey. Yep, f*** you. No wonder he went on to name his dwarves so badly (Pikel, for example, was his version of "pickle" because he thought it would be a funny name to give a dwarf with green hair).

I'm convinced the reason he never grokked FR names was because he worked on that book that used the Bloodstone adventures as inspiration. (Yes, the adventures where a monk was named Kane. I'm only surprised that they didn't manage to fit in a wizard named Merlin or Gandalf as well.)

Anyway, if he writes any dialogue for kuo-toa, at least we have the Star Wars prequels so that we know to read it in Jar-Jar Binks' voice. ;)

(snip) I think we should wait and see the ideas Perkins and co. have come out.
Well, it's not like we have any other choice.
 
From the Tweet:

"Out of the Abyss cover - [MENTION=98644]Jacob[/MENTION]sontyler illustrates Demogorgon demolishing Menzoberranzan after a spell goes wrong!"

I think the likelihood that the adventure will at least partly take place in that dark city is quite high.
Indeed. Though it is possible (albeit unlikely) that that might be depicting a scene from before the start of the actual adventure.
 

pemerton

Legend
If Salvatore is the worst writer on earth what kind of novels do the Drizzt haters read?
I don't read much fiction, but in fantasy I'm a big fan of Tolkien, and also enjoy REH's Conan. I want to like Lovecraft, but find him pretty hard going.

My favourite author is Graham Greene, and I think his Catholic existentialism has quite a big impact on how I approach RPGing. Other influences are Wagner's Ring Cycle (which also has something of an existentialist vibe) and 90s Hong Kong martial arts cinema.
 

Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
I don't read much fiction, but in fantasy I'm a big fan of Tolkien, and also enjoy REH's Conan. (snip)
I'm a fan of both Howard and Tolkien, but I also don't read much fiction and fantasy fiction makes up a small subset of the fiction I do read.

If Salvatore is the worst writer on earth what kind of novels do the Drizzt haters read?

[MENTION=6790371]rets82[/MENTION], you need a little bit of training in logic. This makes no sense. Hating or disliking Drizzt suddenly doesn't reduce the number of novels in the world to choose from by any appreciable amount. Believe it or not, there are other novels you can read. I'll echo [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s recommendation of REH in large part because you can legally and freely download the Conan novels from Project Gutenberg in Oz.
 

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