Permanant Character Death

[shoplifter]

Sure was, But we all get what you meant

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: It's me...

Around the corner is a gelatinous cube. One of us walks into it accidentally, me and the other gal roll ones before we have a chance to do anything, are paralyzed and that's it. The whole party is now dead.

It was anticlimactic to say the least. For some of us, it was our favorite characters. It was cheesy and yes, I was bothered. It wasn't fun and I was under the impression that was what this game is about. I have enough drama in my real life.

So there is something "wrong" with me because I'm upset my character died and I should grow up or I shouldn't play anymore or whatever. But everyone wants me to keep playing and accept this is what happens and just deal with it. Why should I continue to do something that isn't fun?

~Queenie

Oh nasty way to go, you now have a touch more sympathy than you had in may earlier post. It was a bad call by the DM putting a Gelatinous cube on a party that was already at half strength (IMHO) but its something you learn to live with. I've lost count to the cheap deaths my characters have suffered, drowning while you had water walking prepared was the wost one the DM said I couldn't cast spells and keep my head above water.

Without the chance of a character dying the games no fun either, there is no challenge if you know you will always be okay, you might as well not even roll dice.

If you didn't think the chance of characters death was part of the game what did you think the rules for hit points, weapon damage were all for?

 

[S'mon]

For the sake of some grit and realism do I just say that PC death is part of the game, and without that risk the game loses something (which is my opinion) and take a chance of losing a player(s)?

That's what I would do. I wouldn't want a player who won't play in a game where PCs can (permanently) die. YMMV.

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: Re: Permanant Character Death

That's what I would do. I wouldn't want a player who won't play in a game where PCs can (permanently) die. YMMV.

I wouldn't want to be a player in a game where the DM wasn't willing to permanently kill characters.

 

[Fenes 2]

Fenes2... so when you have higher level characters dealing with stuff like disintegrate or even paralysis by a monster who then would eat the victim what do you do?

I don't have such spells or monsters, or the cinematic rescue takes effect.

I noticed that I prefer a game where people try cinematic stunts and daring plans much much more than a game where players play it safe, choosing the smartest, less riskiest plan. Fear for my PC makes a game unbearable for me, absolutely no fun, so I won't play such a game.

 

[Fenes 2]

As a DM, I'd stick with the decision for the characters to remain dead. Sometimes these things happen. I mean, I understand about losing characters you put a lot of work into - as a player in the late 1e era, I had an elven cavalier that ended up dead simply because he had the bad fortune to run into a band of giant trolls (without any way to make fire, by the way). I loved that character, but there was no way to logically bring him back, even with the DM and I trying to rationalize ways to do it. As a player, I think I'd also be in favor of keeping them dead - anticlimactic, yeah, but it's a classic D&D story. I mean, the gelatinous cube is one of those undersung critters from the very beginning of D&D - losing PCs to one is almost an honor ! It'll make the survival of furture characters even more exciting, by lending an air of danger to the game.

My milleage does indeed vary. I played in games with permanent PC death, and I hated it. I know people like that sort of play, but the whole "risk = fun" concept never fit my style. I don't need nor want an air of danger in my game - I have no fun worrying for my PC. I also don't play with people who are unable to play a PC that fears death and acts accordinly without actual risk of PC death.

To each his own - I just know I hate PC death etc. Tried it, hate it.

 

[Dire Wolf]

In my own defense... it is my opinion that Queenie exagerated slightly in her description of what happened.
Yes the lich was on the third level of a dungeon but the party was lead through the dungeon following a trail of blood and had only a few encounters before reaching the end. They did not crawl through the whole dungeon.
Yes they did fight the golem and then the lich... but the party was loaded to the hilt with magic items including artifacts for each member.
I agree that it was a cheesy way for the party to meet its end, I just wanted opinions on what other people do when a situation that warrants permanant character death arises.
Thanks for all the opinions and ideas. This has been very helpful.

 

[Grazzt]

Re: Re: Re: Permanant Character Death

I wouldn't want to be a player in a game where the DM wasn't willing to permanently kill characters.

Agreed Bagpuss. Me either. Nor would I want to play in a game where the DM consulted with or got his player's consent before offing a character (or characters).

Death can be permanent in my campaign. Its happened before (all the way back to 1e) and will likely happen again. Hell, we even use (as a house rule) the 1e/2e Resurrection Survival % (its now a Con check, not required if using true resurrection, wish, or miracle). No one's failed it yet, but it could happen.

I remember way back in 1e my brother had a paladin (rolled fairly under 1e rules so ya know how special it was). Anyway, the paladin was killed, the cleric went to raise him, and the paladin had a 99% chance of surviving. Imagine the look on everyone's face when the d% came up"00"

And no, permanent death IMC is not always left to random chance. Like I said, no one's failed the % roll yet. But death has been permanent (for various other reasons) and will likely continue to be. Raising and resurrecting dead characters/creatures/NPCs/etc. is expensive (and has been since we started with 3e) but its possible.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Permanant Character Death

Agreed Bagpuss. Me either. Nor would I want to play in a game where the DM consulted with or got his player's consent before offing a character (or characters).

Well said. In my experience, the game loses any sense of excitement once I know the DM is going to pull my PC's fat out of the fire. I mean, I like my characters, but (and I don't want this to seem like a jab at anyone else, because it's not; it's just my own opinion) they are, after all, fictional characters in a game. I can pretty easily roll up another one. If I like a deceased character's backstory, I may try to dovetail the new character's backstory with it, per DM approval.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Colonel Hardisson - thatwas what I was trying to get across in my long winded post above. You should be able to use the death of a beloved PC to build on and create a new PC with some of the original character's background. I would make for an excellent role playing experience.

This is especially relevant to me andmy game as in our last session we had 2 PC and one animal companion deaths. They were 2nd level fighting a CR3 Zombie Ogre. The barbarian and druid (along with the druid's AC) all died but the PCs were able to overcome the zombie (thanks largely to the halfling wizard and ranger). The 2 players were a little bummed but quickly bounced back to create new characters on the spot. Now we have a Half-Orc Monk and Forsaken Elf Bard.

My point is that both players put a lot of effort into their characters and really played them to the hilt. When the PCs died, even though they had only made 2nd level, the other players were subdued (the elven fighter player even suggested that they could be raised ). Neither player felt that was appropriate and made up new PCs on the spot.

In the end I felt it was one of the better sessions I have run. It set the tone for the campaign that I will not pull punches during a major encounter and death isa real possiblity. I doubt this helps with the situation with Queenie but I felt I dealt fairly with my players and they had ample warning of what to expect (they could hear the zombie shuffling around behind a stout door and went in one at a time to contront it! ).