Permanency not very permanent?

[Skaros]

Hi,

So, my cleric gains access to Permanency thanks to the Time domain soon, which begs the question:

Is permanency worth the costs? I was thinking so, until I notice that it can be dispelled with a simple dispel magic from a higher level caster!

For an adventuring spellcaster, it seems to me that the number of dispel magics thrown at you as you face enemies will be legion. Sooner or later (probably sooner!) a dispel magic check will knock out your permanent enchantment. So much for the 1500 experience you spent to have a permanent Tongues spell up, for instance.

So...not too useful, or something I'm missing?

Thanks,

Skaros

 

[AuraSeer]

You're not missing anything; Permanency is vulnerable to dispels. Magic items are less likely to lose their powers, but they're expensive, and most of them use up scarce slots.

 

[Skaros]

You're not missing anything; Permanency is vulnerable to dispels. Magic items are less likely to lose their powers, but they're expensive, and most of them use up scarce slots.

Not 1500 XP expensive! Usually, anyway

How much does it cost to have an item (wondrous, lets say) that gives the user the Tongues capability while worn.

Double that cost so it can share a slot with another item, so the limited slot issue isn't a factor.

Curious,

Skaros

 

[tleilaxu]

IMC we consider dispelled permanencies supressed for some period of time, not removed completely

 

[Celebrim]

I'll second that spells made permanent should be treated as items for purposes of dispelling.

 

[Blood Jester]

I'll second that spells made permanent should be treated as items for purposes of dispelling.

I'll third that opinion.

 

[kreynolds]

Not 1500 XP expensive! Usually, anyway

Well, 1,500XP spent creating a magic item would be 1/25th of 37,500gp, which would be the market price of the item you spent the XP to create.

Tongues is a 3rd level spell. If you wanted Tongues on a magic item, and you wanted it to be constantly active, the cost would be roughly 60,000gp [3 (spell level) x 5 (caster level) x 2,000gp (use-activated, unlimited charges) x 2 (slotless item) = 60,000gp],

So, if you make the item yourself, the cost is roughly 60,000gp. If you use Permanency, you spend 37,500gp worth of XP. But guess what the kicker is? If you made the magic item yourself, only half the market price would count against your character wealth, which is still pretty close to the relative cost of the XP you spent to use Permanency. Then again, the permanent spell doesn't count against your character wealth at all.

Actually, you kinda get screwed because the permanent spell isn't actually so permanent, but by the same token, you don't have to worry about it being stolen from you, such as if it was on an amulet or something.

Do I think it's lame that it can be permanently dispelled? I'll be honest, I used to, but not anymore. It makes sense, although I'll admit that it's arguably a bit easier to simply dispel the effect with a targeted dispel than it is to go to the hassle of pick-pocketing someone.

I worked up a system a while back that allowed you to place truly permanent spells upon yourself. Essentially, it was just a 9th level version of Permanency. The spell merely required three times the cost of XP that Permanency does, and the magical effect is no longer a permanent spell, when in effect, it becomes one of three things; extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that because it more closely resembles the item creation cost methods, but you get the idea.

 

[Thanee]

HOUSE RULE

We also let permanency-permanent spells only be suppressed, but we do not treat them as magic items (that would be a little bit too much).

If the permanent spell becomes dispelled by an area dispel or targeted dispel targeted on you, then it is merely suppressed instead of being dispelled, much like a magic item.

If the permanent spell becomes dispelled by a targeted dispel specifically targeted on the spell, then it is dispelled as normal (including the higher caster level restriction from the Permanency spell description). Mordenkainen's Disjunktion likewise destroys all permanent spells.

Bye
Thanee

 

[bret]

HOUSE RULE

We also let permanency-permanent spells only be suppressed, but we do not treat them as magic items (that would be a little bit too much).

If the permanent spell becomes dispelled by an area dispel or targeted dispel targeted on you, then it is merely suppressed instead of being dispelled, much like a magic item.

I realize you were quoting your house rule, just want to check on something.


Under normal rules, doesn't it have to be targetted for a Dispel Magic (actually, most likely Greater Dispel) to take out a Permanency?

 

[Thanee]

Nope. The spell is dispelled just like any other.

If you have See Invisibility made permanent and Hasted yourself and then get targeted by a Dispel Magic, it'll be able to dispel both, the Haste and the permanent See Invisibility, for example.

Bye
Thanee