D&D General PETITION: Acknowledge Hasbro's hurtful content (Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, Native American red orcs)—through an Amendatory Bundle [+ thread]

[DarkCrisis]

Take the time and effort to Change a 30 year document that no one cares about except Mystara fans?

Don’t read Hollow World, my dude.

 

[Mistwell]

Will you sign the petition?

Just a note: I don't think we have "A-Game threads" at ENWorld. That's an RPG.net thing, not an ENWorld thing.

 

[MGibster]

If you wish to delve into the nitty-gritty details, please see the complete PDF research document, here:

You're opening a thread about a contentious issue and expect people to read a 48 page PDF to get up-to-speed? That's ridiculous. How about you give us a brief synopsis of what the problem is (I see you did that in another post) and what steps you want WotC to take?

Please note: I myself have never called for censorship. I have only ever called for a "teaching moment." I have never called for this game book to be removed from libraries, or from the DTRPG storefront. I do call for Hasbro to cease profiting from this hurtful content.

Practically speaking, that's what you're asking for. And, no, I don't want to get into a semantic discussion abotu how this isn't really censorship because you're not the government. WotC is not going to spend a lot of time or money adding addendums to legacy products produced by TSR. So I ask, what is the purpose of this petition? Is it about teaching people? No, I don't think it is.

Request for an A-game thread. I'm not a moderator, yet I'm requesting that we refrain from posts like: "petitions never work." So, I am calling for a +(positive) thread.

We can still dissent, right?

 

[Hussar]

Mein Kampf is for sale and publishers are certainly profiting from it. And rightfully so. It is an important historical document.

Orcs of Thar is an important historical document for the hobby. When people claim that racism has never existed in the hobby, that things like orcs have never been problematic because they are fictional (a word for word quote of an oft made argument) having something like Orcs of Thar right there to point to, complete with the disclaimer, allows the conversation to point to concrete examples of the inherent bigotry in the genre and the game.

Rewriting it for modern sensibilities is entirely missing the point of having works like this available.

So no. I will not sign this petition because I believe that the OP, while commendable inintent, has completely missed the point.

 

[Zardnaar]

Mein Kampf is for sale and publishers are certainly profiting from it. And rightfully so. It is an important historical document.

Orcs of Thar is an important historical document for the hobby. When people claim that racism has never existed in the hobby, that things like orcs have never been problematic because they are fictional (a word for word quote of an oft made argument) having something like Orcs of Thar right there to point to, complete with the disclaimer, allows the conversation to point to concrete examples of the inherent bigotry in the genre and the game.

Rewriting it for modern sensibilities is entirely missing the point of having works like this available.

So no. I will not sign this petition because I believe that the OP, while commendable inintent, has completely missed the point.

My university had mein kampf on the reserve stack. I did reference it in some essay buy I kinda cheated and Google the reference.

Orcs of Thar us crap but I mY want to buy a copy one day eg if I ever want the gazette as a complete set.

 

[AnotherGuy]

That is child's view. Just because there is something else worse going on, doesn't mean YOU should shut down discussion of anything else.
I thought Orcs of Thar was deleted and not for sale, and I find it quite disgusting that it is.

What doesn't surprise me, is a bought of good old mid western boys laughing and joking that racism is fine, "just ignore it bro".
Well no, I choose not to "just ignore it bro".

And shame on you boys that are happy with such a racist property up for sale.
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I feel this isn't fair criticism and playing the shame game is really not on. Lots of problematically influenced material is up for sale. The answer IMO is not to censor such material and collectors wouldn't want it censored. A foreward or disclaimer is a perfectly fine method for dealing with this.

I wouldn't want to see this pulled. There are ideas within this book that are worth mining for great stories and hooks. At least, from what I can recall, 2 Princes of Glantri are directly affected by material from this Gaz. There is more to use from it than just the problematic elements. Surely as a fellow gamer one can see that?

 

[Immeril]

On a side note: bad timing to start your petition. The recent news concerning Roald Dahl's work has been rather poorly received.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

By protesting against something, you raise it's profile, and sell more copies. This petition has probably already done more harm than good.

If you want something that is already almost forgotten to go away, the best thing to do is ignore it.

 

[AnotherGuy]

@Dungeonosophy I feel if you really cared about what you're proclaiming you'd produce a document with helpful suggestions and freely place it on every D&D forum. I'm sure the Piazza and Pandius would welcome such a document.
Given all the work you've already done I don't think it's too much of an ask.

And if that really is too much for you to take on (life happens) outsource the project to the Enworld community with a +thread on proposed changes. Everyone could pitch in with their ideas.
There are many fantastically generous Enworlders who take on amazing projects here - for instance @Voadam with his thread on Undead or @Cleon with his monster conversions or even posters like @FitzTheRuke with his Story Hour threads inspiring the community or @pukunui with threads on enhancing APs.
What I'm saying is there is a better way to address it.

 

[Lanefan]

This thread is tagged [+positive]. If this thread annoys you, please move along to other ENWorld discussions. Thank you!

The existence of the thread doesn't annoy me. Quite the contrary; it's a worthwhile topic, and I'm glad to see it raised.

The attempt to use the [+positive] tag to suppress dissent and make the thread an echo chamber, however, doesn't sit so well.