Pathfinder 2E PF2 house-rules / variant rules

[Philip Benz]

Cap

I just want to dispel the notion you're conveying here, that all criticism against PF2 is unfounded.

Cap, just to be clear, I do not claim that all criticism of PF2 is unfounded. Simply that my experience of running the game over 56 sessions so far (with PCs now at 12th level) has shown me that the game does work with the existing rules.

I have agreed with you that the medicine paradigm is unnecessarily complicated, but that its complexities don't really pose a problem for me, since the players have learnt how to use this system independant of any input from me, the DM, so we keep using it as written.

As far as other potential problems are concerned, we just deal with them as they come up. And I am not adverse to ruling in favor of greater gameplay options rather than adhering blindly to the RAW. The most important thing to me is the fun our group has around the table (or around the VTT, as we haven't yet got back to the tabletop).

As far as PF2 being the "worst possible choice" for a heavily homebrewed game, I just don't see it. As always, the proof is in the pudding, and we'd have to talk about a specific set of variant rules to be able to make any meaningful comments. This sort of blanket rejection doesn't seem to me like it's helping anyone.

 

[glass]

I only have two "generic" houserules for PF2:

• PCs get either an extra ancestry feat or a general feat at first level (started as an extra ancestry feat, because the ancestries felt a bit lightweight with only the herritage and one feat. Added the option to take a general feat instead because I homebrewed a level 1 general feat and then realised nobody could take it....).
• When making a Recall Knowledge check, players nominate which skill(s) will be used. If none of the skills they nominate are relevant, no roll is made and they get no info, but at least they do not risk crit-failing. This may not be strictly a houserule, since the rules for Recall Knowledge are somewhat vague on the actual proceedure, particularly with regard to IDing creatures (since the relevant skills depend on the creatures' keywords, and the players do not know which skills are appropriate until after someone successfully makes the check, they cannot make an informed decision about whether they should attempt they check with any given skill).

I also have a few setting rules for my homebrew setting, Pelhorin. I have fairly close equivalents in every system I use with that setting. The PF2 version looks like this:

Spoiler: Pelhorin PF2 setting rules

• Culture is separate from species (what PF2 calls Ancestry). Each player selects a culture, which determines things like starting language options, religious options, and weapon training feats (Ancestry-specific weapon training feats are not available unless they pertain to natural weapon that ancestry physically has.)
• Each character gets two languages for free: The automatic language for their culture, and the campaign language (the latter ensures that PCs can understand each other and most NPCs they meet without postulating a universal "Common" language, which Pelhorin does not have). Languages based on int bonus depend on culture, not ancestry.
• Each character gets [name of culture] Lore as a free trained lore skill.
• Each character gets one uncommon pick at character creation – this does not necessarily have to be something you can actually take at first level, so if you wanted to make sure you get teleport you could nominate it (although check the campaign is going to last long enough first). Other uncommon options need to be found or sought out in play. Character created at higher than first level get one extra pick per five levels. These picks do not automatically grant the item in question, just the ability to buy or select it at the appropriate time.

ETA:

• Elves are weird. Mechanically, this means they have the Plant and Fey traits as well as Humanoid and Elf. Also, they a partial exception to ancestry not determining languages: Elves do not get elven automatically, but they can always take it was one of their language picks even if it is not on their culture’s list.
• True Paladins do not worship gods, and are represented in PF2 by the Champion with the True Paladin class archetype (which takes out the deity references). The paladin cause is still available to normal (god worshipping) Champions, but they would not be referred to as "paladins" in-universe.

EDIT: I have been thinking about adding a houserule granting free Lore skills for regions in which a PC adventures for a a span of levels and/or a period of in-game time, but I have not worked out the details yet. Also, I remembered a couple more setting-specific rules (in the spoiler block).

_
glass.

 

[Philip Benz]

About Recall Knowledge checks...

When the PCs first see an adversary or a group of adversaries, I give them a free RK check. They don't have to choose a skill, since they're trying to recall anything they might have learnt about these critters. Instead, I tell them "make a religion/arcana/whatever check on one of your adversaries" and then I frame the knowledge they've gleaned in terms of past research, old stories around a campfire or barroom gossip they may have overheard.

Further checks cost actions. But IMHO it is inappropriate to make the PCs choose which skill they're using. When necessary, I make secret checks for them (I have a DM summary sheet with most of their relevant skills, so I don't have to ask them what their bonus is) but whenever possible I ask them to roll, just because players prefer rolling their own checks.

The RK paradigm in PF2 is ill-defined at best, so it seems logical to give them some information, even on a failed check. In that case, it's just general background info on the creature, no actual stats and so on. Successful checks will get them the most notorious of the critter's special attacks or weaknesses, and crit successes will get a better list of what the critter can do, or how it can be best attacked. Seems to work fairly well.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Here is a copy of our house rules. So far we have played 30+ sessions with them. Players are having great fun, and so far they have achieved the kind of game my players and I want. Our tables are a blast, and people must enjoy the game as I have players from the 80s and 90s still coming back for more. My players even read my 20-page guides for each campaign and work details into their backstory, I am a Blessed One DM!

I am sure some people will not like them, or not see what our table was going for (more OSR/gritty/slow healing). That said, I post them as an example for the OP, and I will not be replying to every nit-pick that some of the illustrious commenters will provide, especially the line-by-line reply I am not sure why certain parts are bolded or larger font below, it means nothing.

Uncommon/Rare Trait​

Anything with the Uncommon or Rare trait is usually not selectable. Exceptions will usually be spells or magical items given by the DM and specific ancestries for a campaign.

Ancestry / Heritage​

Players choose an Ancestry from the list provided for each campaign, as not all ancestries are available for every campaign. Descriptions of all the main ancestries follow these rules.

Ability Scores - Gradual Boosts​

This variant from the Gamemaster’s Guide giving boosts earlier but more slowly is used.

Classes / Archetypes​

Players can choose between a Free Archetype or Ancestral Paragon for their characters. Only one archetype or paragon path is permitted per character throughout its lifetime.

Classes - Divine Classes​

Divine character classes always venerate one main deity, even if this contradicts the class description. This includes Champions, Clerics, Druids, Oracles, & Rangers.

Skill - Investigation​

Investigation is an Intelligence skill, and it covers the Search and Investigate actions. Thus not tied to class/Perception.

Skill - Insight​

Insight is a Wisdom skill, and it covers the Sense Motive action. Thus not tied to class/Perception.

Skill - Crafting​

When a character selects Crafting, they must specify what specialty their skill refers to. Examples include alchemy, armorsmithing, weaponsmithing, jewelry, scribing, brewing, and so on. Characters can take multiple instances of Crafting if they want to be able to craft multiple types of items. Additionally, crafting does not take 4 days, but rather takes time-based on the Earn Income chart to get to 50% completion.

Skill - Medicine / Treat Wounds​

Treat Wounds can only be used once per battle (this includes Battle Medicine), not every hour. If there is no encounter during a given day, it can be not used more than once per day.​

Skill Action - Identify Magic​

This action requires the use of read aura or similar spell. A critical failure means you cannot try to identify the magic again until you gain a level.

Feats - Uncommon​

Adopted Ancestry, Blood Component Substitution, Continual Recovery, Craft Anything, Inventor, Red Herring, That’s Odd​

Initiative - Reactions / Flat-footed​

When combat starts, combatants cannot take reactions until their first turn in combat. If they failed Perception checks against hidden foes, they are flat-footed until they have their first turn in the round.

Action - Attacks of Opportunity​

All PCs gain the Attack of Opportunity feat for any melee attacks they have Expert proficiency in. Creatures and NPCs gain the feat in a similar manner dependent on their level and role.

Action - Ready​

A Readied action that causes damage disrupts manipulate actions on a critical hit. Additionally, two-action activities can be readied, and this costs three actions instead of two.

Action - Counterspell​

Counterspell is available to all spellcasters as a 1st level class feat. Counterspelling does not require the exact spell to counter but instead requires a spell of the same school and level.

Condition - Wounded​

The Wounded condition is only removed by a full rest, reducing the score by 1 point per 24 hours. The Diehard feat allows two points per 24 hours instead.

Prepared Spellcasters - Spell Preparation​

Spellcasters that prepare spells (Clerics, Druids, Wizards, and Witches) have the Flexible Caster archetype abilities without the loss of spell slots or cantrips. Spells can be heightened during casting freely. Conversely, prepared spellcasters need to learn spells in a similar way to a wizard. Prepared spellcasters do not start out able to select any spell from their spell lists. Instead, you start with a spellbook worth 10 sp or less which you receive for free and must study or pray to prepare your spells each day. The spellbook contains your choice of 10 cantrips and five 1st-level spells from your class’s spell list. Each time you gain a level, you add two spells to your spellbook, of any level you can cast. You can also use your spellcasting skill to add other spells to your book.

Spontaneous Spellcasters - Signature Spells​

Spontaneous spellcasters (Bards, Oracles, and Sorcerers) treat their spells as if all of their spells known are signature spells. Additionally, any bonus spells they get from bloodlines or other class features do not count towards their spells known.

Spells - Somatic Components​

Spells with somatic components need an empty free hand to cast.

Spells - Focus Spells & Healing​

Focus spells that provide healing can only be used on a creature once per day. This includes spells like Lay On Hands, Goodberry, Hymn of Healing, Life Boost, or any other spells that are similar.

Spells / Companions / Familars​

Any summoned creatures or otherwise controlled creatures must be discussed and created in Foundry with the GM prior to any session.

Spells - Rituals​

The primary caster of a ritual must have the ability to cast spells at a caster level appropriate for the ritual.

Spells - Spellstrike / Magus​

The Spellstrike action does not draw Attacks of Opportunity.

Magical Items - Stores / Frequency​

Magical items are far less common in Mazariim than other settings, and players should not expect to have the standard amount of Pathfinder 2E items. Balance issues will be handled by the GM. Magical items are almost never available for purchase in stores, the exceptions being low-level consumables and the most basic of magical weapons and armor.

Magical Items - Runes​

Runes used on magical item creation are not transferable or upgradeable. When a magical item is completed, it cannot be altered any further.

 

[glass]

Uncommon/Rare Trait​

Anything with the Uncommon or Rare trait is usually not selectable. Exceptions will usually be spells or magical items given by the DM and specific ancestries for a campaign.

How does this differ from RAW?

_
glass.

 

[dave2008]

Changing armor from AC to DR is a massive massive change to the core fundamentals of the D&D game. I do not believe any balance can be retained.

What you said is probably true; however, we do not change armor from AC to DR. Armor is still AC, but it also has DR. The DR only comes into play on Crits and when you reach 0 HP.

 

[dave2008]

Put otherwise, its main selling point is the very finely calibrated balance. If that isn't the draw for you (and it clearly isn't, though I do feel compelled to point out you haven't really tried it RAW, have you?) then I strongly suggest you look elsewhere for your game.

Yes, it has been suggested early in this thread to try RAW first. While I do agree with that stance if I want to play PF2. I think my ramblings here are more about creating my own game. I came to that conclusion through this discussion.

 

[dave2008]

Have you explained why suggesting "play with proficiency without level" isn't doing it for you, Dave?

(I mean, it is such an obviously good solution that somebody gotta have made it, and still here we are. So I hesitate suggesting it since you clearly have a reason to keep looking. Maybe you could link to where you explain why PWL doesn't cut it for you?)

Yes it has been suggested, and I would need to give it a try if we play PF2. However, I've realize I don't want to play PF2. but create my own game.

 

[JmanTheDM]

I like @CapnZapp 's recall knowledge house rule. my instinct is to slightly modify it to "allow" only those PC's with training in the relevant skill to make this free RK check. if you don't have a trained skill associated with that monster but instead want to use an "adjacent" once - eg, instead of Arcana, use Occultism, that costs an action. But I don't think that is totally necessary from what was written

Cheers,

J.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Yes it has been suggested, and I would need to give it a try if we play PF2. However, I've realize I don't want to play PF2. but create my own game.

You might want to try the system anyway if you're going to work with it to 'develop' something new out of it, to better understand what you're altering.