Phalanx Fighting

[dvvega]

I previously posted a thread on Shields and Aura usage, and I was reading over some of the Shield based options available to characters.

I thus came across Phalanx Fighting in Complete Warrior, p103

As I read this, I had the following issue come to mind (assuming Heavy Shields and Light Weapons all round - is a shortspear light? how does one make it so?):

Do the two options of Phalanx Fighting stack for the user of the feat?

Do multiple Phalanx Fighters stack with each other?

I ask this because the bonuses are unnamed, and it would imply that if I had only 1 Phalanx Fighter then he/she could help out 8 allies (adjacent squares), however if all of those allies had Phalanx Fighter as well the bonuses would just start adding up. The guy in the middle would obviously benefit the most, but even in a line of 3 or 4 Phalanx Fighters the bonuses would be something like

ABCD

A, +7 (shield + his own feat + 2 from B)
B, +9 (shield + his own feat + 2 from A and C)
C, +9 (shield + his own feat + 2 from B and D)
D, +7 (shield + his own feat + 2 from C)

Hopefully someone can confirm/deny/correct my statement.

Because using the above and Shield Specialisation (further +1 to ACs), all of this is achievable by 1st Level Fighters, non-human (Humans get +1 feat for something - who knows what).

That would mean that without armour, 1st level characters are running around with 18-20 AC. Yes I know Area Of Effect attacks could mess up their day, but as they get higher levels and maybe Shield Bash/Shield Charge and other feats that keep their AC even when attacking, they could most likely sort that out quick smart.

TIA,
D

 

[Bagpuss]

Your statement is incorrect read the feat, it even has that example in it.

If two or more characters who all know the feat are adjacent they each gain an extra +2 AC (for a total of +3 AC), and a bonus of +1 on Reflex Saves.

If you are going the heavy shield and light weapon approach, and thinking 1st level humans you might be better taking Shield Wall from Heroes of Battle, than Shield Specialization. If you don't want to be forced to take light weapons (and short spear is one handed), then use Shield Wall instead of Phalanx fighting.

Shield Wall - Shield bonus increases by +2 when adjacent to shield wielder.

So with Phalanx Fighting and Shield Wall each member in the line would get a +5 Shield bonus, on top of the +2 AC from a heavy shield.

Personally I think Phalanx fighting needs rewriting it has far to narrow a weapon choice. The Roman army fought in Phalanx using shortswords and effectively tower shields. Vikings used shield walls with their round shields (light?) and swords and axes. Phalanx tends generally to refer to people fighting with longspears (pikes), with shields.

 

[dvvega]

Right okay,

I somehow missed the "also with this feat" bit

+3 to AC, no stacking ... so it is +6 with a heavy shield and shield specialisation.

Not too shabby but not as uncontrolled as it first seemed.

so the fighters in question would have ACs of 16 before counting DEX or armour. For a 1st level character that isn't too bad.

@Bagpuss ... there is a feat that lets you wield a polearm such as pike, guisarme etc and keep your shield bonus ... Shield and Pike from Dragon 338, however it is a Light Shield only thus doesn't work with Phalanx fighting.

Perhaps Formation Expert, however requires you to have 2 allies adjacent to you (on either side to be precise) would be more your style?

 

[Bagpuss]

Shield Wall, and that Shield and Pike feat you mention would probably be a better simulation of traditional Phalanx formations, than the actual Phalanx Fighting feat.

 

[dvvega]

@Bagpuss: you have mentioned Shield Wall a couple of times, however the only Shield Wall I know of is as a part of Phalanx Fighting - is there a feat I do not know of?

TIA
D

 

[Bagpuss]

It's a feat in Heroes of Battle.

You need shield proficiency, but then if you have this feat and you are using a shield and next to an ally also using a shield you gain +2 bonus to your Shield AC.

It doesn't give as good a bonus a group of fighters all with Phalanx Fighting, but it isn't as restrictive and it gives a better bonus if you can't depend on your allies to have the feat.

 

[dvvega]

Okay I'll have to read it ... is it a Shield bonus or an increase in the Shield bonus of the Shield? Because that with Phalanx Fighting could be a big bit of stacking. It would make those 1st level Fighters AC18 when naked.

Thanks,
D

 

[Bagpuss]

It's an bonus to your shield AC I think. It does stack.