PHB 2 power creep

[Old Gumphrey]

I did 134 damage in one round with my barbarian today, killing one level 6 monster and bloodying a second. I'm level 5. I'll break it down, since I figure someone will ask:

Walk up, Frost Wolf Rage. Enemy takes the basic attack. It misses. I crit for 55 + 1d12 + 2d6 = 71 with my +2 fullblade. Instantly bloodied and almost dead. I Rampage (and hit) for another 1d12 + 9 for 15. Death. I gain 10 temp HP (which is 100% gravy at this point) and use my free action charge to Howling Strike another baddie for 1d12 + 1d6 + 7 = 18. Burn my action point, since I'm obviously on a roll, and Rage Strike for another 3d12 + 7 = 30. Bloodied.

The entire table was speechless. Nerf barbarians, seriously.

 

[Victim]

So with a critical hit, two Daily powers, and an action point, a barbarian did a lot of damage.

I think our ranger can put out similar numbers with Biting Volley + Attack on the Run. Granted, that's a bit higher level. But when you have a good striker class unloading lots of resources, hitting with everything, and critting, what do you expect to happen?

IIRC, our ranger would have had something like +7 damage (+4 Dex, +2 Greatbow, +1 Weapon Focus) at that level. Split the Tree hits for 2d12+7 on two targets plus +1d8 from Quarry on one guy. So critting does 39+2d6 (46) damage to one target, and then 2d12+7 (20) to the other guy. Action Point for Two Fanged Strike: 2d12+14+3 (my warlord would add 8 more damage with tactical assault): another 30 points. And he pops someone with Disruptive Strike when they act: another 1d12+7 (13).

Not quite as high, but still over a hundred to two guys. And only using 1 Daily power (but Two Fanged Strike does more damage than his level 5 Daily). And less dependent on fortunate conditions since the ranger doesn't need to drop enemies or score crits to get extra attacks.

 

[hong]

Our ranger did precisely that, with 2 crits thrown in. Hit somewhere near the 200 mark, IIRC.

 

[Kinneus]

Sounds less like power creep and more like a striker acting like a striker.

People complain about grind and high monster HP... I think a striker as badass as the Barbarian is a good thing.

Some of the PHB 2 classes are probably better designed than the PHB 1 classes. Sorcerer versus Warlock, for instance. This is less about the PHB 2 classes being unexpectedly strong, however, and more with the various roles (striker and controller, primarily) finally being what they are meant to be.

In some (very specific) cases, I think the PHB 2 classes might be a bit weaker than the PHB 1 classes, or just toned down. Compare an Invoker's Encounters and Dailies to a Wizard's Encounters and Dailies. Compare Righteous Brand or Sacred Lance to the Shaman's Watcher's Strike or even the Bard's Guiding Strike. It's less power creep and more fine-tuning.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

So a level 9 ranger with 2 crits and an action point can outdamage a level 5 barbarian with 1 crit and an action point? Nice argument...

At even 7th level I could have stacked another 3d12 + 7 minimum on top of that as an immediate interrput. If I got a 2nd crit, my damage would also soar near the 200 mark, and 2 levels earlier, with regular and temporary HP out the wazoo.

 

[hong]

To be precise, a level 5 barbarian who got lucky and managed to kill a monster in 1 round.

The ranger can do 2 attacks per round, on demand, and can crank it up to 4 once every 2 encounters, again on demand.

 

[Victim]

So a level 9 ranger with 2 crits and an action point can outdamage a level 5 barbarian with 1 crit and an action point? Nice argument...

At even 7th level I could have stacked another 3d12 + 7 minimum on top of that as an immediate interrput. If I got a 2nd crit, my damage would also soar near the 200 mark, and 2 levels earlier, with regular and temporary HP out the wazoo.

I added in the lower level version via edit. The campaign ended months ago, so I'm not exactly remembering what happened TODAY - fun with Attacks on the Run happened near the end of the game, so it's the most recent incident to recall. There where several instances in which luck, and resource expenditure conspired for huge damage spikes.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

To be precise, a level 5 barbarian who got lucky and managed to kill a monster in 1 round.

The ranger can do 2 attacks per round, on demand, and can crank it up to 4 once every 2 encounters, again on demand.

How is it any less lucky than a double-critting ranger? 2 attacks per round with an at-will? What abilities recharge every 2 encounters?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Sounds less like power creep and more like a striker acting like a striker.

...

Some of the PHB 2 classes are probably better designed than the PHB 1 classes. Sorcerer versus Warlock, for instance. This is less about the PHB 2 classes being unexpectedly strong, however, and more with the various roles (striker and controller, primarily) finally being what they are meant to be.

But isn't that the very definition of power creep right there?

The warlock is an arcane striker, but the sorcerer is "better designed" aka does more damage, aka is a more powerful striker than a warlock.

I notice nobody posts saying how their warlock managed to do 100+ damage in one round

 

[Victim]

How is it any less lucky than a double-critting ranger? 2 attacks per round with an at-will? What abilities recharge every 2 encounters?

It's not necessarily any more lucky. But barbarians have several abilities that magnify the impact of good luck. A crit, besides providing a maximized attack, bonus crit dice, and often high crit, also adds an extra attack.

Action points recharge every two encounters. Twin Strike provides two attacks on an at will.

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If the warlock is weaker than other PHB classes, then it's not really power creep to have a arcane striker on par with rogues or rangers.

While not 100 damage in a round, our warlock did dominate a few encounters with Hunger of Hadar (and there were other times when the power, while useful, was not so impressive)