PHB errors and reprint schedule

[thalmin]

Textbooks, while still having errata, don't even come close to the mistakes in D&D books, and often the textbooks deal with much more complicated material and are much longer, too.

Hmmm....

I don't think I want to pay textbook prices for my game books.

 

[Piratecat]

Textbooks, while still having errata, don't even come close to the mistakes in D&D books, and often the textbooks deal with much more complicated material and are much longer, too.

Heh. That might not be the best example for a comparison. Go google some textbook prices.

 

[ki11erDM]

Yep. Most kids have to pay $100ish per class at my University for books. And they all just end up cutting and pasting from Wikipedia anyway...

Also as to why text books have less errors? Because they are just reprinting the exact same text year after year after year but adding a new chart. So comparing books that are on their 15th version to a first print run is not a very good comparison anyway.

 

[Andur]

First and foremost, they are not "printing errors" they are the "Collector's Limited Edition" of the core rulebooks. So if you want to wait for the "Standard Edition" then go ahead, if you want the foil copy, buy early, buy often.

Second, textbooks tend to have more mistakes, was perusing one just the ther day and the random page I opened attributed the word "stereotype" to 1991 origins... Majority of the cost in textbooks is copyright allowances, all those pretty pictures and quoted source materials actually cost something...

 

[Jer]

Anyway, I think we can all agree that many, if not most, RPG books have editing problems.

I've often wondered why this is true, why editing seems so poor in the RPG business. Lack of resources and manpower? Seems likely.

Which makes me wonder even more why Wizards of the Coast, a real corporation with money and people, still have problems with editing.

RPGs are awfully complex beasties in general. Gaming books are reference books, how-to manuals, and general reading material. I'd imagine they combine the worst qualities of technical editing with the worst qualities of prose editing into something nightmarish that I wouldn't want to touch with a 3 meter pole. My hats are actually off to the folks who have to edit these beasts - even with high-tech assistance this can't be an easy job.

As for why Wizards has the same problems as other companies despite having more money and people - that's usually an indication of a problem that doesn't scale linearly with the addition of more resources. Anyone who's ever worked on a large scale software project knows how that goes (or, for that matter, anyone who's ever read "The Mythical Man-Month"), and judging by the number of folks who show up on the credits page of any given Wizards book, I'd imagine that the integration required to build these books is probably comparable to a mid-sized software project.

Textbooks, while still having errata, don't even come close to the mistakes in D&D books, and often the textbooks deal with much more complicated material and are much longer, too.

You ever worked as a grad student for a professor who was writing a textbook? I'm not sure of what it's like in humanities, but I know folks who have in engineering and physics. If you have the status to write a textbook, then you have a sizable lab where you have legions of underpaid proofreading monkeys known as "grad students" who you get to force to read your drafts and find nitpicky errors to correct. And that's before the book ever gets touched by the publisher.

And as far as errata in textbooks - in certain areas it's awful. Especially in mathematics but also in computer science. It shows up most often in the exercises and in the solutions to the exercises in the back of the book. Low level math textbooks are particularly horrid in this regard, despite the math in them ostensibly being simple.

How is that a strawman?

Is THAT what that image is supposed to mean? Every time I see that stupid thing I think it's someone saying "if you only had a brain" and meaning it as an insult. Thanks!

 

[Wolfspider]

Partly it's because good editors tend to not be gamers, and people who understand the game very well don't tend to be good editors (or tend to have a full-time job other than editing).

Apparently so....

They do a better job of it than any other RPG company I buy products from.

Without a doubt--but they still do a poor job. The other RPG books are simply dismal rather than being just badly edited.

You don't read enough math textbooks.

Thankfully!

 

[Wolfspider]

Heh. That might not be the best example for a comparison. Go google some textbook prices.

Oh, I'm well aware of the outrageous price of textbooks, since I teach at a college and all.

So do you think that if gaming books were priced higher, say $50 for a core rulebook, that the editing would be better?

The problem is that some gaming books are priced that high, and the editing STILL sucks....

 

[Wolfspider]

How is that a strawman? Answer - it's not.

I am going to be all ironic and quote the Wikipedia entry on what constitutes a Straw Man argument. One such definition is:

"Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, such that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical."

To me, this seems to be what has been done.

 

[Verys Arkon]

I'm no professional editor, but putting together something as small as the PrRC is a tough job. I can't imagine doing it for nearly 1000 pages, with dozens of authors, with a system still under heavy development! With 45,000+ views of the PrRC thread, there have been a lot of eyes on the pdf. Yet nearly a month after its first release, someone will post with an error that no one else has seen (or bothered to report at any rate).

Trust me, after you've actually tried to edit something as complex, you have a whole new appreciation for how GOOD the WotC books actually are.

 

[Wolfspider]

You ever worked as a grad student for a professor who was writing a textbook?

Yes, yes I have.

*shudders*

I'm not sure of what it's like in humanities, but I know folks who have in engineering and physics. If you have the status to write a textbook, then you have a sizable lab where you have legions of underpaid proofreading monkeys known as "grad students" who you get to force to read your drafts and find nitpicky errors to correct. And that's before the book ever gets touched by the publisher.

I thought that WotC had lots of unpaid interns who could serve as "proofreading monkeys."

And as far as errata in textbooks - in certain areas it's awful. Especially in mathematics but also in computer science. It shows up most often in the exercises and in the solutions to the exercises in the back of the book. Low level math textbooks are particularly horrid in this regard, despite the math in them ostensibly being simple.

Oh, I find plenty of errors in the textbooks that I use. But the number is really small when compared to the number I find in the average gaming book, which was my point, really.